How about we change the "dps check" a little?

[Hezzlocks]

That got dark way fast.

That's what makes me the Warrior of Darkness, pal!

[Conando]

As a DPS, your job is to do just that. If you can’t do that, then no you do not deserve a reward.

[Ergast]

I admit that I like soft enrages better than hard ones. It's not a binary "you did it or you didn't", but a "let see if you can survive me enough time to stop me", with the dps reducing the needed time of survival if you do your work better.

But outright taking away the dps checks? What's next, just making sure you see a ton of pretty lights through a fight and then gets a reward after the fireworks? That's not the solution, and while I don't mind a fight like Bardam in Bardam Mettle, all mechanics and nothing more, it's not something that should be in every fight. Specially in the hardest fights in the patch.

[geekgirl101]

As a DPS, your job is to do just that. If you can’t do that, then no you do not deserve a reward.

That said for the rest of us who can dps we're being let down by people who can't, and for something like Crown of the Immaculate it's an extreme case of if more than 1 person dies at any point of the fight it's a guaranteed wipe because you need all the dps you can get, and sometimes even the best dps can't avoid everything all the time because we're not robots.

[Gruntler]

That said for the rest of us who can dps we're being let down by people who can't, and for something like Crown of the Immaculate it's an extreme case of if more than 1 person dies at any point of the fight it's a guaranteed wipe because you need all the dps you can get, and sometimes even the best dps can't avoid everything all the time because we're not robots.

One or two dps doing above average--not even awesome, just above average, can clear that fight with a few deaths on the team.


https://www.fflogs.com/reports/MwRm9...pe=damage-done

Here's one kill, with two dps doing above average, half the party doing below average, and ten deaths.

TEN. DEATHS.

The enrage timer on innocence is NO WHERE near as tight as you think it is, if you have a couple players on your team who perform above average. Not perfect. Not even abnormally well. Just above average.

[stanrir]

you should not be rewarded for being bad

[SenorPatty]

No. Not a good idea, even in theory or execution.

In theory, your surmise that savage/ex content will be more accessible becaus even though some people might not pass the dps check, they'd be able to clear the raid. Nvm that dps checks are twofold in those type of content:

-The clear before you hit enrage (covert dps check)
-The actual dps check (overt)

Chances are a party that can't even clear a dps check will not even be able to clear the raid itself. Furthermore, not all fights are based around it. Some fights are actually more mechanic intensive, which is what most people who don't like to do savage/ex want to avoid.

And what about the actual execution of such an idea? Toxic levels are not gonna lower. They will rise. It's one thing to fail the current checks. It's another when the higher rewards are contingent on not failing it. I'm not gonna bother explaining the obvious ramifications about that. Let's delve into something else here.

The content was created for those who don't mind putting in the work and time to clear. This idea essentially kills this and opens a can of worm because it sets a precedence for closing the gap between those who live for challenging content and those who don't care for it. What's next, free pass for heal checks? Maybe a free all party resurrection? Or maybe tank checks are just straight up gone and they can blue dps without worry.


Here's a better idea: leave the 5% content to the 5percenters alone. The players that can't fathom that in a mmorpg, not all content rewards will be served up on a platter for them need to deal with it.

[Nedkel]

No. Not a good idea, even in theory or execution.
In theory, your surmise that savage/ex content will be more accessible becaus even though some people might not pass the dps check, they'd be able to clear the raid. Nvm that dps checks are twofold in those type of content:
-The clear before you hit enrage (covert dps check)
-The actual dps check (overt)
Chances are a party that can't even clear a dps check will not even be able to clear the raid itself. Furthermore, not all fights are based around it. Some fights are actually more mechanic intensive, which is what most people who don't like to do savage/ex want to avoid.
And what about the actual execution of such an idea? Toxic levels are not gonna lower. They will rise. It's one thing to fail the current checks. It's another when the higher rewards are contingent on not failing it. I'm not gonna bother explaining the obvious ramifications about that. Let's delve into something else here.
The content was created for those who don't mind putting in the work and time to clear. This idea essentially kills this and opens a can of worm because it sets a precedence for closing the gap between those who live for challenging content and those who don't care for it. What's next, free pass for heal checks? Maybe a free all party resurrection? Or maybe tank checks are just straight up gone and they can blue dps without worry.

Here's a better idea: leave the 5% content to the 5percenters alone. The players that can't fathom that in a mmorpg, not all content rewards will be served up on a platter for them need to deal with it.

How would making 1/2 progress be more frustrating than doing 0? I dont get the lack of logic behind it.
What i meant by double rewards is, if your team will fail the dps check but still clear the raid you still get it, but if you go for a second run you will be able to get another one if you kill it before the enrage timer.

This is going to make things easier to progress, less frustrating when the things go wrong multiple times in a row. In this type of content team organisation and the selection plays the biggest role and then your personal skill takes the place in importance after the team overal performance which you could not control.
Since SE is so strong against any kind of parses and they are not going to introduce it at all into their game, dont you think it is quite ironical they demand you to get them on the PC to learn how to do 80+% and then reward you with the best gear in the game?
I found it ridiculous and off putting.

[SenorPatty]

How would making 1/2 progress be more frustrating than doing 0? I dont get the lack of logic behind it.
What i meant by double rewards is, if your team will fail the dps check but still clear the raid you still get it, but if you go for a second run you will be able to get another one if you kill it before the enrage timer.
This is going to make things easier to progress, less frustrating when the things go wrong multiple times in a row. In this type of content team organisation and the selection plays the biggest role and then your personal skill takes the place in importance after the team overal performance which you could not control.
Since SE is so strong against any kind of parses and they are not going to introduce it at all into their game, dont you think it is quite ironical they demand you to get them on the PC to learn how to do 80+% and then reward you with the best gear in the game?
I found it ridiculous and off putting.

You know Nedkel, sometimes I forget the stuff you write on these boards and I take you seriously. I was even going to write some logical rebuttals for you but this right here...yeah I'm not gonna bother. I'm just gonna go with a straight up, big fat "no" and leave it at that. My mistake was posting in this thread in the first place, should've just hightailed outta here after reading your post.

[Daibunnie]

How would making 1/2 progress be more frustrating than doing 0? I dont get the lack of logic behind it.
What i meant by double rewards is, if your team will fail the dps check but still clear the raid you still get it, but if you go for a second run you will be able to get another one if you kill it before the enrage timer.

This is going to make things easier to progress, less frustrating when the things go wrong multiple times in a row. In this type of content team organisation and the selection plays the biggest role and then your personal skill takes the place in importance after the team overal performance which you could not control.
Since SE is so strong against any kind of parses and they are not going to introduce it at all into their game, dont you think it is quite ironical they demand you to get them on the PC to learn how to do 80+% and then reward you with the best gear in the game?
I found it ridiculous and off putting.

The whole point of the dps check is to make sure the party is skilled enough to survive through the mechanics and able to dps consistently during it. There are several dps/mechanic checks during the fight, should your group be able to clear if you're not able to pass any of them? The rewards for clearing said fight is getting the highest tier of gear, which does make those checks more lenient as you clear each week, but if this is the hardest tier of current content, why trivialize your first clear with inflated ilvls. The game already has a normal version of each fight if you need something easier or want to avoid the enrage/dps checks.

Also, SE doesn't care whether or not you use a parser as long as you're not making it obvious to anyone else that you're using one. Not to mention, you don't need a parser at all to clear since the fights were designed without those in mind and the game has systems like sky, sea, stone for each savage fight to see if you're doing enough dps.