How about we change the "dps check" a little?

[Jandor]

This man/woman gets it.

DPS check is pretty boring, with it being a mitigable damage would be cooler.

DPS check is a requirement, without it you may as well not bring any DPS, especially to progression.

Just stack up on tanks and healers and slowly but surely brute force your way through the mechanics.

[Hezzlocks]

DPS check is a requirement, without it you may as well not bring any DPS, especially to progression.

Just stack up on tanks and healers and slowly but surely brute force your way through the mechanics.

You are correct that there absolutely should be a DPS requirement to prevent that kind of situation, but that doesn't mean the fight should be built entirely around a DPS check. Hard enrages are the DPS requirement, the point where if you don't have the dps to kill it before this time, it's an instant wipe. This doesn't need to be strict however, merely just something that is in place to prevent people stacking tanks and healers.

Soft enrages, meanwhile, are the intended end point of the fight, where a mechanic becomes gradually stronger over the course of the fight, and eventually becomes an overwhelming resource drain. Could that mechanic be cheesed through with excessive healing and mitigation? Yes, but then you'd be hard pressed to beat the hard enrage. Soft enrages are intended to be a skill check for healers and tanks. The better they are, the further they can push the soft enrage.

We don't have that. We have DPS checks galore, but not so much healing and tanking checks. Or even mechanical skill checks, really, at least not beyond "Don't stand in the things we don't want you to stand in" and "Stand in the things we want you to stand in"

[CorbinDallas]

We don't have that. We have DPS checks galore, but not so much healing and tanking checks. Or even mechanical skill checks, really, at least not beyond "Don't stand in the things we don't want you to stand in" and "Stand in the things we want you to stand in"

E2S, E3S, and E4S all have soft enrages. As did Neo Exdeath, God Kefka, Final Omega, Chaos to a degree (you could survive the 4 sets of debuff before the hard enrage), Tsukuyomi's enrage was an increasing stack damage mechanic, back in the day Shiva and Phoenix had increasing damage stacks throughout the fight, resulting in a soft enrage. There are loads more and are more common than you believe.

[Rilifane]

You are correct that there absolutely should be a DPS requirement to prevent that kind of situation, but that doesn't mean the fight should be built entirely around a DPS check. Hard enrages are the DPS requirement, the point where if you don't have the dps to kill it before this time, it's an instant wipe. This doesn't need to be strict however, merely just something that is in place to prevent people stacking tanks and healers.

Soft enrages, meanwhile, are the intended end point of the fight, where a mechanic becomes gradually stronger over the course of the fight, and eventually becomes an overwhelming resource drain. Could that mechanic be cheesed through with excessive healing and mitigation? Yes, but then you'd be hard pressed to beat the hard enrage. Soft enrages are intended to be a skill check for healers and tanks. The better they are, the further they can push the soft enrage.

We don't have that. We have DPS checks galore, but not so much healing and tanking checks. Or even mechanical skill checks, really, at least not beyond "Don't stand in the things we don't want you to stand in" and "Stand in the things we want you to stand in"

Soft enrages are also a way for tanks and healers to contribute towards passing the check without having to be a pseudo-dps. At least in WoW soft enrages were also designed in a way where stacking healers wasn't an option at all. It was a choice between 2 or 3 healers for 10man and 4 or 5 healers in 20/25man. I can't remember ever seeing a raid running 6 healers in 25man even if the raidwide damage was heavy and the soft enrage added to that.
If the dps is the weakest link (lack of gear, suboptimal raid comp, learning the fight etc), a good healer team can make up for quite a bit. On the other hand if the healers are the weakest link, good dps can make up for that by not letting it come to the point where the healers get overwhelmed. Tanks always contribute either way. They help with correct positioning and minimizing running and mitigation to take of pressure.
A decently designed soft enrage is enough of a dps check.
I'm good with some hard enrages, that's okay. But it's definitely not the only way to desihn encounters.

[IttyBitty]

not so much healing and tanking checks.

Siri, what are tankbusters in general?
How about Aggro resets?
Almagest?
White Hole?
Charybdis?
Photon especially when combined with Eternal Darkness?
Missile?
Allagan Field?
Shinryu's dragon heads?
Akh Morn?
Death Sentence + Plummet?
Heartless Angel/Heartless Archangel?
Practically every single Prey mechanic?

How many more examples do you want?

[Nedkel]

DPS check is a requirement, without it you may as well not bring any DPS, especially to progression.

Just stack up on tanks and healers and slowly but surely brute force your way through the mechanics.

You will still have to do certain amount of dps, there will be two kinds of dps check.

You do little less dps, you get one reward but you have to survive the soft enrage, it wont be easy to clear because you will get hit with massive amount of damage to punish you for it and few minutes after you will get hit with hard enrage.
You do it again and your dps is good enough so you kill it before soft enrage, you will be able to claim it again in second run.

It still will be 1 reward per run, but if you are good enough you could do it twice and get double the rewards.

I am not advocating here for a "participation reward", just a reward for being good enough in other areas than straight out DPS. I think there was quite a misunderstanding on my thread post, and i was being attacked for it, gcbtw. xD

[Vidu]

You will still have to do certain amount of dps, there will be two kinds of dps check.

You do little less dps, you get one reward but you have to survive the soft enrage, it wont be easy to clear because you will get hit with massive amount of damage to punish you for it and few minutes after you will get hit with hard enrage.
You do it again and your dps is good enough so you kill it before soft enrage, you will be able to claim it again in second run.

It still will be 1 reward per run, but if you are good enough you could do it twice and get double the rewards.

I am not advocating here for a "participation reward", just a reward for being good enough in other areas than straight out DPS. I think there was quite a misunderstanding on my thread post, and i was being attacked for it, gcbtw. xD

With this bolded part you somehow managed to make your suggestion worse... seriously? Now you're putting the burden for making up for subpar DPS on the healers who are suddenly faced with "You better heal this up quickly or its a wipe after all because the dps in your group was to bad, better make up for it!"
No... just no.

You get the reward for being good enough at the overall fight, that means following the mechanics while dishing out enough damage. What you are asking for is a participation reward, because the difficulty of Savage fights is a combination of more complexe mechanics and higher dps-requirement. If you cant bring that to the table, stay away from it.

[Vahlnir]

I'm all for anything that dismantles the mentality of damage > everything else, particularly with green dps and tanks favouring increasing dps stats and completely ignoring mitigation stats, but this is not the way to do it. Participation awards are one of the many things wrong with society these days. Life isn't going to just give you everything you want. If you're bad at something, life won't give you some money and a pat on the head and send you off. Life will let you know you're bad. Life will punch you in the gut, take everything of worth from you, and leave you sitting in a bath full of ice with one of your kidneys missing. Participation awards do nothing to prepare children for the harsh reality of life, and we don't need any of that junk here.

No, if you want damage to no longer be such an all encompassing requirement, you would need to change the design of the game itself to make healing and mitigation far more important and worthwhile, because as much as I dislike the everyone-is-a-dps way of doing things, it can't be denied that its like that because the game is set up in a way where mitigation and extra healing is entirely pointless and dps requirements are tight.

Well said.

[Tsukino]

Participation awards are one of the many things wrong with society these days. Life isn't going to just give you everything you want. If you're bad at something, life won't give you some money and a pat on the head and send you off. Life will let you know you're bad. Life will punch you in the gut, take everything of worth from you, and leave you sitting in a bath full of ice with one of your kidneys missing. Participation awards do nothing to prepare children for the harsh reality of life, and we don't need any of that junk here.

While I agree this is a bad idea, this is definitely not why. First of all, it's completely irrelevant to this game - the game is not designed specifically for children and it doesn't matter what it "teaches" or "prepares" anyone for.

But more importantly, the very idea that "participation awards are bad" is a distraction from the actual problems of society, mostly repeated by the same idiots who think that <insert generation name here> don't have whatever they think their made-up generation had. Real life does in fact hand out rewards to people who put in no effort to achieve them, and poops all over people who work hard all their lives, and does the opposite and everything in between. Real life is not about rewards for hard work, it is unfair and often random. Giving out participation awards doesn't prepare anyone for anything, but neither does the most fair achievement-based rewarding anyone could ever come up with.

So yeah, FFXIV shouldn't give out things to everyone without achieving something. It should reward achievement specifically because it is a video game where you can make it do that, and not like real life at all.

[Lium]

Life will let you know you're bad. Life will punch you in the gut, take everything of worth from you, and leave you sitting in a bath full of ice with one of your kidneys missing.

That got dark way fast.