Please Change Superbolide

[Wistfulwaffle]

Come on, stop talking down to people. I'm tanking in FFXIV since 2013 Beta. FYI. And the thing with superbolide is, not how the skill is designed for most, but the way it works. ALSO, You are about to press superbolide, cause you get very near to 1 hp, (Lets just say you got 5 hp) you are triggering it, before it's through, you see the healer has cast benediction (WHM). Good Game. Healer wasted a CD, so did the Gunbreaker, you can't deny that at last, if you are the "amazing no moron" tank you claim to be. Also, the way you insult other players with words (by simply calling anybody who puts up feedback morons)is disgusting and tells more about you than it does about anybody else. I just throw my 5 pennys in. Also what's the "win win" when you trigger superbolide at low hp, but die due to the calculation of it before the invul kicks in? You should maybe tank more, cause tbh I think you haven't tanked that much practically.. Just guessin'. Still Valic, since I'm not the one you attacked personally, I'll leave you to it. All I am saying is, Superbolides Skill Design is TOTALLY GOOD, IF and thats a BIG IF-> The skill would put you in "invulnerability" first, then drop your hp to 1, we talkin' bout miliseconds here, but it will make a big difference.

I like how you rag on him for insulting players and then question his tanking skills. Anyway, we can sit here discussing hypotheticals all day but it doesn't make the skill bad.

"what's the "win win" when you trigger superbolide at low hp, but die due to the calculation of it before the invul kicks in? "
You realize this is a latency problem and not a skill problem, right? since you have most of your tanks leveled up you should be aware of this. it can happen with any invuln. Take your five pennies back.

[Valic]

I like how you rag on him for insulting players and then question his tanking skills. Anyway, we can sit here discussing hypotheticals all day but it doesn't make the skill bad.

"what's the "win win" when you trigger superbolide at low hp, but die due to the calculation of it before the invul kicks in? "
You realize this is a latency problem and not a skill problem, right? since you have most of your tanks leveled up you should be aware of this. it can happen with any invuln. Take your five pennies back.

Part of why I give up here, people are jumping the gun in assumptions at this point lol. Only talking down I did was to the person that keeps repeating "THIS SKILL IS BAD AND THAT'S ALL" rather than figuring out a coherent solution. So far in this thread it has still come down to the player being the issue and not the skill itself. Latency implies a player driven issue too, as that comes down to when they pop it and the internet connection being in favor of them or not.

/shrugs

Ionno tanking tho clearly, am dumb and not meme enuf to kno tank

[Videra]

Superbolide is fantastic.

[stanrir]

I was in a run where the whm used bene and right after the tank popped superbolid to just go straight back to 1 hp. The WHM got super salty and was like "don't ever use that CD around me again" lol it was funny

[Wistfulwaffle]

No the trade off is stupid and the design of the skill contradicts role design. I love how people here are trying to explain how the skill works like we are morons. We know exactly how it works and how to use it. It doesn’t change the fact that there is ALWAYS high opportunity cost using superbolide. With the other similar tank skills, if you didn’t actually end up needing to use it there is no extra impact on the tank or the healer. This is completely different with superbolide because it forces you to throw away any HP you might have at the time of use. This causes you to think twice before using it and causing compounded issues when you actually didn’t need to use it.

I have no issue if that is how they want to design all of the tank invulns, but you can’t claim superbolide is fine with such a disparity in cost to use versus the other tank skills.

You’re advocating the removal of invulnerability skills and now arguing how the skill contradicts role design. How exactly does it contradict role design? By not meeting your standards for healing? It does need to be explained to you, apparently. You shouldn’t be popping any invulnerability skill unless you’re at 20% of your max HP and feel there’s no other option. Holmgang and living dead would usually put me at 1HP because I used it to stay alive. It’s “forcing” you to throw away HP that would be lost anyway, ergo, the outcome is the same.

“If you didn’t actually end up needing to use it there’s no extra impact on the tank”

This sounds like a player issue, not a skill issue. Regardless, you have an impenetrable shield for 8 seconds that gives you more than enough cushion to throw in a heal or two. If that’s not enough for you there’s also aurora. If I pair that with superbolide, guess what? I’m not at 1hp anymore.

[Kabooa]

Every argument about Superbolide's health drop being fine fails because Hallowed Ground exists.

The HP drop is only there so it can be different. There is no advantage to it, there is no nuance to it. It's just a weaker Hallowed Ground, that's already a weaker hallowed ground by virtue of Duration, so having it being weaker than Hallowed Ground with a health dip too makes no sense.

If the Gunbreaker had -anything- that would play off off this 1 HP state, such as an Ability that's fueled by -health loss-, it might have a leg to stand on.

But it doesn't.

The -hp drop can only work against you, never for you-.

But it could be worse. It could be Living Dead.

[Valic]

Every argument about Superbolide's health drop being fine fails because Hallowed Ground exists.

The HP drop is only there so it can be different. There is no advantage to it, there is no nuance to it. It's just a weaker Hallowed Ground, that's already a weaker hallowed ground by virtue of Duration, so having it being weaker than Hallowed Ground with a health dip too makes no sense.

If the Gunbreaker had -anything- that would play off off this 1 HP state, such as an Ability that's fueled by -health loss-, it might have a leg to stand on.

But it doesn't.

The -hp drop can only work against you, never for you-.

But it could be worse. It could be Living Dead.

This is only half right. The reason the HP drop exists is for there to be a consequence to this skill. It's not meant to be an abused skill for invincibility. DRK has LD, WAR just simply can't go below 1 but still suffers incoming damage, GNB drops to 1 for invinciblity, and right now PLD's is just got a higher cooldown than all the others. The main issue is just like Yoshi-P said, PLD's hallowed ground is already too OP and he's afraid to do anything to it lest it infuriates players.

It doesn't need any synergy justlike how L and the others dont need any synergy because they're stand alone "save my butt" skills. The fact it drops to 1 is also a nice nod to how you would drop to 1 hp in FF8 games from a big attack like the final boss would do. Also it doesn't hurt to have low hp and get a heal t raise that LB bar just a bit better. So I wouldnt say it can only work against you, never for you". It's a small touch anyways I figure, but yeah. Every invulnerability should have some cost because.. again, invincible.

Would a Gunbreaker using Superbolide at 20% just as Benediction went off, thereby entirely negating a three minute cooldown said Gunbreaker had no idea would be used, classify as "moronic"? Because that's the point they're making. In DF, you have no idea what your healing will do. Saying "well, they can just use more heals because you're invulnerable" misses the entire point. They were using Benediction so they didn't have to spam say Cure II.

In that same question, if a dark knight uses living dead and the healer uses benediction just as they did, isn't that just as equally at fault? Just in DRK's case, they waste a cooldown on something that never reached the status of walking dead. It's less noticeable in their case too, say the DRK already got a benediction and they didn't know it, they pop LD with them somehow at low hp just a couple seconds after(idk maybe they walked into several aoe's or some nonsense), then the healer is without benediction and they're going to enter walking dead and die anyways.

The problem with that idea is that it is only noticeable because GNB takes the leap to drain its hp ahead of time instead of it being a "counter measure" like dark knight's. GNB at least will survive regardless, can even use aurora to help if it's off cd and there's no rule saying they must be healed to 100% full health either unless a TB is incoming.

Worst feeling is when a WAR uses holmgang and they don't even hit 1 hp. All of these cases present a "Wasted cooldown" where the healer ends up healing the tank anyways using a good heal cd. By the end of this, everyone's doing the same thing and the complaint doesn't matter because it just comes down to a smart player vs a dumb player.

[Wistfulwaffle]

Living dead has no impact of use. If you use it and you don’t trigger walking dead, you lose nothing and don’t create additional work for a healer and healers don’t lose heals.




Making a statement like “only use it at 20% hp” shows a very clear lack of understanding of the issue. Healers have an array of very powerful instant oGCDs at their disposal that make low HP drops like this inconsequential in most cases. The latency, healing and damage dynamics of the game are not well suited to support a skill that nullifies how these healing skills function. It has resulted in needlessly inefficient skill that is usually more trouble to use than its worth. This is the definition of a poorly designed skill.

Sounds like you’re pushing some agenda over an invisible problem linked to either bad micromanagement, bad players, or both. The 20% rule of thumb is to avoid latency issues and to stay alive. This is true for any invuln and not exactly rocket science. If anyone is popping superbolide with over 20% of their HP, they’re not playing the role correctly. Your definition is flawed and It sounds like you need to be more efficient.
Healers need to understand what kind of move is coming out or anticipate why a tank would use their invuln to effectively heal at the right time. This skill hasn’t nullified or changed anything for an experienced player.

[Wistfulwaffle]

Every argument about Superbolide's health drop being fine fails because Hallowed Ground exists.

The HP drop is only there so it can be different. There is no advantage to it, there is no nuance to it. It's just a weaker Hallowed Ground, that's already a weaker hallowed ground by virtue of Duration, so having it being weaker than Hallowed Ground with a health dip too makes no sense.

If the Gunbreaker had -anything- that would play off off this 1 HP state, such as an Ability that's fueled by -health loss-, it might have a leg to stand on.

But it doesn't.

The -hp drop can only work against you, never for you-.

But it could be worse. It could be Living Dead.

Hollowed ground is broken and not an accurate metric to judge other tank busters. It also has an absurdly high CD time, so using it twice in one instance is usually not an option. I’m not really understanding how the HP drop works against you if you’re using it in the correct circumstances. If you were a DRK or WAR you’re still dropping to 1 HP and taking damage as well. The outcome is the same. If you’re running savage or EX content, healers and tanks are both aware of major hits and certain mechanics that require invulnerability. This leaves dungeon runs which are a joke and shouldn’t require any major CDs to stay alive. Sounds like people are complaining just to complain.

[Tranquilmelody7]

I would kill to have a skill like Superbolide on DRK.
If I notified my healer beforehand, I could utilize it whenever it was available for dungeon pulls.

I agree that it could use some tweaks, but I don't feel it's at all conceptually flawed like Living Dead.

Hallowed Ground also really needs a nerf.
I love PLD but I kind of hate how mindless that skill is to use.