The WoL, Fray, and Dark Knights, knowing what we know now. [ShB Spoilers]

[FaerieAura]

So, with the revelation of our character's legacy, a lot of the Dark Knight storyline is finally starting to make more sense. As we know, the Dark Knight job is about opening the soul up to Darkness - to what we know now is the energy of creation, of growth, and of activity. It is also associated with negativity and pain, but that almost seems to be an Eorzean contrivance rather than something that is inherent to darkness itself. Regardless, when we first seek out a mentor for the Dark Knight quests, we find a corpse in the Brume, a Steel Greatsword, and a Soul Crystal. Dismayed, we pick up the Soul Crystal, only to find that the corpse wasn't a corpse, but indeed still a living, breathing person - Fray Myste.

If you've completed the Dark Knight storyline, you know what comes next. Fray teaches us, becomes our mentor, and then attempts to subsume our life, to become us in a very real way, because she is us. She is the very embodiment of our soul's desires. Hell, she even is a Conjurer - someone who can HEAL - despite being a Dark Knight mentor. Why? So that you can learn how to be a Dark Knight without having to worry about being harmed while doing so.

Come now, you knew Fray was dead from the beginning, but you didn't care! You had a sword and a soul crystal. But what you wanted was a mentor. A mentor with the gifts and the knowledge. A dark knight who could guide you on the path─who you could aspire to become.

Sidurgu does say that he's heard of things happening like this before, so it's not unheard of. But it was always a little mysterious - and while Fray may just be a figment of our imaginations, as others below have said, could there be another explanation? I might have an idea:

Fray, Myste, and their various powers and abilities? They're simply the nascent abilities of the Warrior of Light's Ascian soul given form by the connection to dark energy that the Dark Knight soul stone provides. Simply by desiring a mentor, the half-complete Ascian soul that we possess, amplified by the power of dozens of Dark Knights before us, gave us the power to conjure those memories into a Dark Knight mentor that could act where we knew we could not. We are using creation magicks without even thinking about it. While our inexperience with creation magicks allowed our creation to nearly run amok and turn against us, our willpower eventually allowed us to reign it in.

The same holds true with Myste. The further we delved into the darkness, the more our regrets and our pain took hold in our heart. The more we wanted to make amends. And the Soul Crystal provided an opportunity, though the strain of creating so many simulacra through Myste caused it to shatter for a time.

We are not just "a dark knight" in this universe. We are an (incomplete) Ascian Dark Knight. That gives us abilities that most Dark Knights cannot even think about - I don't think most Dark Knights could pull off Living Shadow, for instance. While this can make our abilities more potent, it also makes us quite dangerous - our raw and untamed tapping of the darkness in our hearts means that our ability to use creation magicks is also raw and untamed. Once I started putting the pieces together, this makes me think that this particular bit of Warrior of Light lore has been in the cards for a long, long time.

[Rakshazi]

losng story short

I don't know if this was the plan of SE from the begining, but it's definitely makes sense to me. More than that it can explain how WoL didn't die in all of his adventures, fights with the Primals and how exactly when we need to find something/someone we always find it - because we want to. We want to live an adventurous life, we want to stay alive in the battles with the Gods, we want/need to find something/someone. Thus being said, our "raw" and "untammed" "Ascian" power can still be in check as long, as we can continue adventuring and not get bored. Soooo.... Yeah... Haruhi Sudzumia v. 2.0

[FaerieAura]

I don't know if this was the plan of SE from the begining, but it's definitely makes sense to me. More than that it can explain how WoL didn't die in all of his adventures, fights with the Primals and how exactly when we need to find something/someone we always find it - because we want to. We want to live an adventurous life, we want to stay alive in the battles with the Gods, we want/need to find something/someone. Thus being said, our "raw" and "untammed" "Ascian" power can still be in check as long, as we can continue adventuring and not get bored. Soooo.... Yeah... Haruhi Sudzumia v. 2.0

The only reason that I get the feeling that this may have been in the cards for awhile is that the scenario writer for the Dark Knight quests was also the writer for the main scenario for Shadowbringers. If nothing else, it's quite possible that she had this particular endgame in mind for awhile, and had at least floated the possibility out there for a long-term reveal for the Warrior of Light.

I don't personally view my character as an "adventure seeking death knight" so much as someone who is tired of losing people close to her and who wants to stop it from happening, no matter the cost, which is why she sought out the power of the Dark Knight when she did. But obviously that strays into personal headcanon territory Regardless, our ability to master multiple forms of combat, creation, and even gathering without so much as breaking a sweat or causing a strain on our aetherial capacity is extraordinary, and points to our soul being beyond that of most peoples' capabilities.

[MikkoAkure]

I was under the impression that Fray was all in your head. No one else but you can see them and when they talk, it comes out your mouth.

In regards to Myste, he was born from the aether in the soulstone, not your own aether.

I’m not sure if either of these match up with what we know about ascian creation powers. Especially since we’re told by one in a sidequest that we have no power of creation at all.

[Enkidoh]

Right. 'Fray' was just Esteem, your 'dark side' given a voice (specifically your bottled-up resentment and frustration at being constantly used by others, especially the betrayal at the Ul'dah banquet), with the actual Fray being dead all along - the level 30-50 quests made it clear it was you mouthing off to various npcs where you thought Fray was speaking (and that they even insinuated you were dragging Fray's corpse around with you). It even hints that the battle against Esteem (where your dark side finally dropped the pretense of 'Fray' and showed their true colours) was again all just in your head.

The real Fray really did lose his Trial by Combat in the Tribunal before you showed up, and was never alive during any of the cutscenes involving 'him'. It was all in your head.

[Iscah]

I found (and have already misplaced) a link to a translation of the Japanese DRK quests the other day. It's only the English version that puts Fray "all in your head" and speaking with your voice to others. He's visible and separate to you in the Japanese version - which makes a lot more sense for a few points, like Drillemont promising our 'friend' will get a proper burial, and later on the fact that Sidurgu and Rielle can interact with Myste.

[Brightamethyst]

Yeah. I read the ARR quests as Fray being dead all along and the whole thing was just in our heads.

[FaerieAura]

I found (and have already misplaced) a link to a translation of the Japanese DRK quests the other day. It's only the English version that puts Fray "all in your head" and speaking with your voice to others. He's visible and separate to you in the Japanese version - which makes a lot more sense for a few points, like Drillemont promising our 'friend' will get a proper burial, and later on the fact that Sidurgu and Rielle can interact with Myste.

I was also under the impression that the fight with Fray leaves multiple knights injured - before your arrival on the scene. It's quite clear to me that whatever Fray is, it is far more than a mere figment of your imagination at that point.

I’m not sure if either of these match up with what we know about ascian creation powers. Especially since we’re told by one in a sidequest that we have no power of creation at all.

Keep in mind that my theory is that we don't necessarily have creation power when we are not actively being tied to darkness. By touching the Dark Knight soulstone, seeking out a mentor for being a Dark Knight, and opening ourselves up to the darkness within our souls, we tap into the creation energies that our ancestors once had control over, and in turn, give rise to Frey, who becomes stronger and stronger the more powerful we grow in our own control over the Darkness. It's a bit like a Sorcerer from a D&D universe - if they're still unaware of their powers and told to throw a fireball at a rabbit, they'd probably struggle. However, if a dragon was charging at them and they were placed in a situation where they had to make a fireball or face death, the nascent energy and power they already had would be more likely to manifest. The possession of the Dark Knight soulstone and the likely state of mind that the Warrior of Light is in when seeking out Frey (generally speaking, it occurs sometime after the Banquet in Ul'dah but before the main scenario of Heavensward is complete, which is a TERRIBLE time for the WoL) means that it's... a time when someone like Frey to cut through the bullshit and teach her how to fight without care for the consequences is JUST what she needs. So she makes her. Without thinking about it.

I also think Myste's powers, given their near identical nature to creation magicks - the ability to call forth nearly anything the heart desires, and in the case of the Warrior of Light, the memories of loved ones and fallen enemies in order to apologize and make amends - would also be a strong argument that at least something is going on here. Not 100%, but something to think about

[ObsidianFire]

Fray in the lvl 30 - 50 quests is most definetly not "in your head". It is mentioned in the lvl 50 quest that you were rumored to be doing something with a body (that's why they are even trying to bring you in to Whitebrim) and in the cutscene before the lvl 50 fight, you can see "Fray's" body slump down to the ground and your own Darkside walk out of it. What seems to have happened is that your Darkside possessed Fray's body and was using it to interact with you.

Later in the lvl 70 fight, we see Fray/your Darkside again, only this time, it's not possessing anyone. Not only do we see it, but Sidurgu sees it too. The same thing goes for Myste.

[Rannie]

I've never been of the thought that Fray (our Esteem) was all in our mind. I always saw that it was due to our overwhelming anger (and pushing back of said anger) of the situations that befell us that caused the soul crystal to react and separate us from that part of ourselves. The visual clues during the initial quest as well always led me to believe that with the fact that you can see that something is going from your body to the limp body of the real Fray.

Then there was the fact that yes while Sid said it wasn't normal for something like that to happen, he mentioned that there were some stories of where it occurred.

Add into that, pre stormblood, our characters where the complete stoic type, never allowing for a lot of the emotions they may feel to come out. Yes there are times where we showed some but never the full extent of it. Like our character being extremely annoyed at the fetch quests that we had to do before summoning Titan. In the end the bloody banquet was pretty much the straw that broke the camels back and then add in the Soul Crystal for the Dark Knighr job was adding fuel to the proverbial fire.