RDM's Patch Notes?

[Hasrat]

Where did I say I was against the changes? I'm just not sure why they were necessary. There's a difference.

Honestly tho, why are you still carrying on with this then? It's been clearly explained to you a dozen times over. Your failure to understand the necessity does not equate to a lack of necessity.

[Enla]

Thing is RDM has lower DPS /because/ it's classified as partial support. It's quick raise is a part of it's utility and just like every other heavily support based DPS job the numbers it puts out reflect this reality. Thus having the job be heavily punished for even just performing one raise makes little to no sense. Having a situation where /two/ raises put you in a situation where you need to actively start altering your rotation is unacceptable on top of that. If using Lucid on cooldown provides no tangible effect aside from running out of MP slower then the job's MP consumption is poorly tuned and was rightly changed to reflect it. A job should not be in an MP deficit for using part of it's utility or heaven forbid from one death. Not even healers are ever in a situation where dying once dramatically alters their performance.

I was in a situation when E4 came out where both healers died constantly and I legitimately had to resort to auto-attacking and using my no-MP melee moves to do damage because I could not make my mana back to start my proper rotation. I don't mind RDM losing some of it's rezbot utility, but so long as we have the ability to raise there should /never/ be a situation where a player legitimately could not make back their mana even after people start getting their act together. And yes, I was using Lucid every chance it came up. It didn't help me get back to a position where I could reliably DPS for the rest of the run and my numbers tanked as a result. I don't foresee that being an issue now.

[Scryar]

I wish they would just put a 1min Cd on verraise and get over with it. RDM is in the same spot now as in stormblood before the damage buffs. It has garbage dps, because of the possibility to rezz several people in a row, which is highly overrated imo. Healers have an instant rezz on a 1 min Cd which is usually more than enough. If you need to rezz several people in a row, you will fail the boss anyway due to lack of people for mechanics or the dps check. It's pretty telling that the so called "progression" job is less popular during progression (if we look at fflogs) than the other casters. Once savage is on farm, rdm will be completely excluded again. New addon, same story. They realised this in stormblood, so they bumped rdm's dps to be in the middle of the damagers in stormblood. Currently we are 3rd last in pdps and 2nd last in rdps. With BLm being king in both, there is zero reason to ever take a rdm instead. (with blm having so many movement tools, this isn't even a significant argument for movement heavy fights anymore)

[Kaethra]

Honestly tho, why are you still carrying on with this then? It's been clearly explained to you a dozen times over. Your failure to understand the necessity does not equate to a lack of necessity.

The simple fact of the matter that I don't think some want to come to terms with is that if you were not running out of MP before, even in normal dungeons, I'm talking like 50/60/70 roulette and much of the 51-80 dungeons (maybe not so much like Auram Vale and before since the fights are shorter), then at least one of two things were going on. Either they were not using their abilities as quickly as they could, or their latency is high enough to prevent their casting as soon as they were able to.

I remember discussing this with a friend of mine while leveling, and the first thing he asked was if I was stacking spell speed. And the answer was obviously no. I was leveling RDM 71-80 so no I wasn't stacking materia of any sort. But then again in these boss fights I was using my spell casts as optimally as I could. Using dualcast to make micromovements in response to upcoming boss mechanics as needed. This way anytime I cast could go off it did, and no time was spent moving that wasn't also dualcasting and waiting for the GCD while using oGCD's in that time as well.

Of course, no one is going to ever admit that in this sort of discussion that they are using their abilities in a less than optimum way. In fact they're likely to think they are playing just as well as anyone else. Though the polite thing to do, unless we have evidence to the contrary, is to take them at face value. They didn't have MP issues. They played the best they could, didn't have MP issues, and I'm going to choose to believe for their sake that its a connection issue they are not really aware of.

It makes the best sense, and allows the discussion on that to be resolved. They're free to think whatever they wish. But the rest of us simply know better.

As for the subject of VerRaise restricting the damage output of RDM. I think that shouldn't be a factor. If I'm rezing in savage, it means that person's DPS, times the number of seconds it takes to realize their dead, for the effect to take place, for the server to restore them is damage lost. Including the damage lost from a back to scratch beginning of their rotation as well as the debuff. I think that alone is enough dmg penalty to the raid. So we should be able to see some better damage. Maybe not quite BLM tier, but definitely on SMN level.

[Fynlar]

Honestly tho, why are you still carrying on with this then? It's been clearly explained to you a dozen times over.

Because people are here saying RDM had MP problems and I'm sitting here thinking, no it didn't, it only did when it had to raise a bunch. Healers have MP problems too when they have to raise a bunch. That's not really a legitimate cause for concern.

A job should not be in an MP deficit for using part of it's utility or heaven forbid from one death. Not even healers are ever in a situation where dying once dramatically alters their performance.

You're right, it shouldn't be, and it wasn't. Having to throw out one raise has never killed me on RDM, just like it hasn't killed me on any healer.

I was in a situation when E4 came out where both healers died constantly and I legitimately had to resort to auto-attacking and using my no-MP melee moves to do damage because I could not make my mana back to start my proper rotation.

Because you had to raise a bunch, yes?

Guess what, that'll still happen today even after these changes if you get a bad party like that.

The simple fact of the matter that I don't think some want to come to terms with is that if you were not running out of MP before, even in normal dungeons, I'm talking like 50/60/70 roulette and much of the 51-80 dungeons (maybe not so much like Auram Vale and before since the fights are shorter), then at least one of two things were going on. Either they were not using their abilities as quickly as they could, or their latency is high enough to prevent their casting as soon as they were able to.

Yeah, sorry, that's wrong too. My "latency" is fine and my casts are going off as they should be according to the gcd.

Of course, no one is going to ever admit that in this sort of discussion that they are using their abilities in a less than optimum way. In fact they're likely to think they are playing just as well as anyone else. Though the polite thing to do, unless we have evidence to the contrary, is to take them at face value. They didn't have MP issues. They played the best they could, didn't have MP issues, and I'm going to choose to believe for their sake that its a connection issue they are not really aware of.

It makes the best sense, and allows the discussion on that to be resolved. They're free to think whatever they wish. But the rest of us simply know better.

Just like how you just "know" whether or not people are playing with a controller, right?

[CorbinDallas]

Because people are here saying RDM had MP problems and I'm sitting here thinking, no it didn't, it only did when it had to raise a bunch. Healers have MP problems too when they have to raise a bunch. That's not really a legitimate cause for concern.

You're right, it shouldn't be, and it wasn't. Having to throw out one raise has never killed me on RDM, just like it hasn't killed me on any healer.

Because you had to raise a bunch, yes?

Guess what, that'll still happen today even after these changes if you get a bad party like that.

Yeah, sorry, that's wrong too. My "latency" is fine and my casts are going off as they should be according to the gcd.

Just like you just "know" whether or not people are playing with a controller, right?

Typical Fynlar and his "My experience differs therefore literally everyone is wrong despite all of the evidence to the contrary". Keep it up dude.

[Fynlar]

Typical Fynlar and his "My experience differs therefore literally everyone is wrong despite all of the evidence to the contrary". Keep it up dude.

Yep. See, the evidence seen right in front of me in my actual gameplay will always trump the "evidence" of others, in my book.

When a bunch of people are saying "it can't be done" and yet one person does it, it kinda casts doubt on the validity of the claim of the former.

The whole "if a fight goes long enough without downtime their MP will run out" argument isn't very compelling when no fight goes on for that long without downtime.

Also, again, I'm not the only one with the stance that I have. It wasn't me that created this topic.

[Arrius]

When a bunch of people are saying "it can't be done" and yet one person does it, it kinda casts doubt on the validity of the claim of the former.

I can turn it around, and say that one person's statement can't be valid when most other say different and can back that up.

Seriously, though - Making such a hack about a improvement.

[CorbinDallas]

Yep. See, the evidence seen right in front of me in my actual gameplay will always trump the "evidence" of others, in my book.

When a bunch of people are saying "it can't be done" and yet one person does it, it kinda casts doubt on the validity of the claim of the former.

The whole "if a fight goes long enough without downtime their MP will run out" argument isn't very compelling when no fight goes on for that long without downtime.

Also, again, I'm not the only one with the stance that I have. It wasn't me that created this topic.

Someone who got carried through Savage without realising probably thinks they're good at the game, I mean the achievement proves it right? They took part in and beat the big bad boss of the game, they must be a better player than most. Despite the 7 others claiming the carry, the person who got carried denies it, because it was what they experienced in front of them, in their gameplay.

Think on it.

[TalithaSolarien]

I wish they would just put a 1min Cd on verraise and get over with it. RDM is in the same spot now as in stormblood before the damage buffs. It has garbage dps, because of the possibility to rezz several people in a row, which is highly overrated imo. Healers have an instant rezz on a 1 min Cd which is usually more than enough. If you need to rezz several people in a row, you will fail the boss anyway due to lack of people for mechanics or the dps check. It's pretty telling that the so called "progression" job is less popular during progression (if we look at fflogs) than the other casters. Once savage is on farm, rdm will be completely excluded again. New addon, same story. They realised this in stormblood, so they bumped rdm's dps to be in the middle of the damagers in stormblood. Currently we are 3rd last in pdps and 2nd last in rdps. With BLm being king in both, there is zero reason to ever take a rdm instead. (with blm having so many movement tools, this isn't even a significant argument for movement heavy fights anymore)

If Savage content is the only stick you are using to measure RDM's against you are probably right. But there is more then enough content in the game for other challenges where the class comes in handy. Take for example Eureka, which only was bearable because there were so many RDM's in the zone (I know they added logos actions for Raising later but they were rarely used due to restrictions of the logos system).

I think the class is in a perfect spot right now.