RDM's Patch Notes?

[Fynlar]

Have you done any Extreme content before these RDM changes?

Yes

You prouve that it was meant to be in the core rotation buddy

I'm not the one making statements on how the ability was "intended" to be used. Burden of proof is on you, "buddy"

No job since the start of ARR needed to micro manage TP or MP for their standard rotation and with the new change it's proof enough.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's wrong.

I know there's been times on NIN even without using AoE where I was hard up on TP if I ever forgot to use Invigorate, and I'm sure MNKs (among others) could have claimed the same at some points, but for the most part, if I *was* remembering to use Invigorate, I would be okay, or at least okay enough to the point where I usually wouldn't dry up before a fight was over (much like how I found RDM to be pre-5.05, just replace Invigorate with Lucid).

Ran myself out of TP on PLD numerous times too (before we even got any AoE ws) in a long enough fight, and PLD had no Invigorate to bail themselves out with. Requiescat/Holy Spirit did a lot to alleviate this.

Your stance in this thread is bizarre, honestly. Your basically Principal Skinner'ing it up in here. "Am I out of touch? No, it's everyone else in this thread, the people who mathed it out and determined that RDM is MP-negative over a long fight, and the devs themselves, who are all wrong!"

I'm not saying that over a long enough period of time, RDM couldn't possibly drain out their MP (again, barring when they die or have to res bot). I'm just saying that there aren't really any fights like that in the game, so it doesn't really matter. The vast majority of fights in the game either aren't that long or don't have 100% uptime (allowing for MP recovery). Usually both.

[Xatsh]

In the end it comes down to this. What are RDM's primary jobs in a endgame party?

It is to deal damage and to provide support for the party in terms of getting dead ppl up quickly to minimize downtime and dps loss.

Could RDM do that in a long EX/Savage fight with the old system? The answer is no they could not. This is why the mp was changed.

rdm's dps is low-mid tier, if they cannot raise or spot emergency heal while maintaining constant dps... They are a completely worthless party spot.

In ex innocence and titania yes I could do it without stopping dps when using LD on cooldown you are right, I would almost run out but LD usually came back up when I was around 1500-2500mp left... but I could not perform any of my other job responsibilities. Literally had to let the healers hard cast raise on dead ppl cause I did not have the mp to instant raise them.

Once the group is solid enough to not mess up mechanics yea does not matter... but at that point well you are better off switching to blm or smn anyways.

[Saito_S]

I'm not saying that over a long enough period of time, RDM couldn't possibly drain out their MP (again, barring when they die or have to res bot). I'm just saying that there aren't really any fights like that in the game, so it doesn't really matter. The vast majority of fights in the game either aren't that long or don't have 100% uptime (allowing for MP recovery). Usually both.

Actually bottoming out to zero MP doesn't have to be a remotely common occurrence in actual play for this to still be a design flaw that needed to be fixed. Just seeing that your MP is dropping like a rock and thinking, if this WERE a long fight, I'd really be screwed, isn't fun or engaging or challenging. It just sucks. There's no upside.

BLM goes through their MP like popcorn, and seeing your MP bar hit zero several times during a fight is expected, and that's FINE, because that's part of how the class is designed, with the whole fire/ice thing, and Flare taking all your MP. You're not "losing" your MP, you're spending it as part of your rotation, and then if you continue to perform properly, you get it back and can go right back to EXPLOSIONS within moments.

With RDM, your MP is going down simply by... playing your class correctly and doing your proper rotation? Even if you're not super likely to actually hit rock bottom, just knowing that by maximizing uptime, you're burning through your MP super fast even WITH Lucid use, and there's nothing you can do about it short of holding your DPS, no class gimmick that goes along with using your MP or way to recover, just kinda sucks. That's why it needed to be changed.

Re: "proving" Lucid's intended design one way or the other - no one here actually KNOWS the minds of the devs with any certainty, of course, but we can use a little common sense. They lowered RDM's MP costs across the board. Why would they do that instead of just saying "working as intended, please use Lucid more" if they DIDN'T intend Lucid to be something with a bit more flexibility, something you can effectively use at certain MP thresholds or hold as a contingency for untimely deaths? If they wanted us to just DEAL with RDM's MP burn by mashing Lucid whenever it's up and basically keeping it on constant CD, they wouldn't have made this change. They would have told us to suck it up.

[SendohJin]

I'm not the one making statements on how the ability was "intended" to be used. Burden of proof is on you, "buddy"

You just like to tell people what they have to do, which is like the same thing "buddy".

I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people running into MP issues on RDM were as a result of not riding Lucid.

All I was trying to say is that it shouldn't be seen as a "problem" to have to ride your Lucid cooldown.

[Ardox]

/snip

Dude, 15 minutes was the best estimate in a vaccuum.. You actually can't press LD consistently on CD (And I mean every 59.9 sec here) and each mana tic you lose make your next boosted mana-regen uptic delayed by 3 seconds. It also meant you could never use Vercure or Verraise without impacting your DPS. It also meant LD was more important than Fleche, Contre Sixte, Embolden, Manafication and Acceleration!!! People all over reported problems with running dry with mana.

It is impossible the job was made to rely on LD that much and you implying the contrary is completely inane. Give just one reason why it should have been so?