5.05 "Balance" - Samurai and Ninja

**Vendalwind** · 08-05-2019 08:40 AM

The crux of some statements here are simple and true.

If a class is more difficult to play it should have a higher pay off, as a result a middle ability player playing the easier class should perform better than a middle ability player playing the hard class BUT at high skill lvl the difficult class should outperform. Otherwise the difficulty is pointless.

If a class provides DPS utility that is dependent on a team then that class should be able to out rDPS any pure dps simply because there mechanics required more coordination and thus is more difficult, and also is less personal.

WHEN a class with an utility dps focus has the highest dmg potential it DOES NOT somehow slot out other pure dps, It still consequently has the most synergy with pure dps classes.

On the flip side if any class can outperform the benefit even a perfect team playing with a perfect utility dps then the utility dps class (NIN) is 100% pointless and will be ignored by serious players.

This is a fact of gaming meta. If SAM can outperform the cumulative effect of NIN's dps and utility regardless of the situation SAM will always be the preferred choice.
IF NIN can outperform SAM DRG and MNK with the caveat of *with a very skilled party* then you will have groups that prefer leniency to reach their peak performance and run DRG +MNK, or DRG + SAM etc. but you will also have groups pursue that golden extra bit of DPS from having a NIN + MNK/SAM/DRG instead, and both will be viable options.

the simple truth is if utility dps do not have the potential to outperform selfish dps they are 100% useless for high end play.

Now im not saying SAM shouldn't be closer to DRG and MNK, Its around 500~ dps lower than their perfect output right now at most percentiles. NIN is an ADDITIONAL 600~ below SAM.

In the perfect world,because MNK and DRG do require some effort for proper dps utility. and MNK is a bit higher skill effort than DRG IMO

NIN at 95th percentile should be 200dps above MNK who is 100 dps above DRG who is 100dps above SAM
at 50-75th percentile all should be even
and at any lower percentile NIN should be 200dps lower than MNK who is 100 dps lower than drg who is 100 dps lower than SAM.

If this model could be match it would provide use for all 4 classes.

But right now we have MNK regardless of percentile ahead of DRG by 200 DRG ahead of SAM by 500 and SAM ahead of NIN by another 600
This is a huge problem.

**Chimiko** · 08-05-2019 11:38 AM

I'm fine with bringing up NIN's rDPS. Atleast bring them to the levels of drg's. So you can have the choice to either go drg or nin. Same with SAM, they should be on par with MNK. So you have a choice.

Right now you'll go mnk/drg no matter what other jobs you can chose between. In the "hardcore scene" there is just 2 melee jobs. Thats drg and mnk. Monk is extremly over-tuned at the moment. The fact that they are outdpsing Black Mages is just insane.
If anyone should beable to do that it should be SAM since that was their design from the start. Unless they are planing on giving SAM a 5% damage buff or a crit buff but we all know that's not going to happen.

What needs to be done is:

To increase NIN's overall rDPS by giving them more pDPS. How they would do that? I don't know i don't play enough NIN to know how they work properly.

SAM needs potency buffs to make them on-par with the other two high damage dealing jobs such as BLM and MNK. Cause the more stats people will get the higher mnk/drg will scale with their buffs. Or they need to give SAM a dh or dmg/physical raid buff. Else this problem will just come back in a 5.4 or so.

Doing this will make raiding just that much better from a melee perspective. It will make it easier to put together raid groups aswell when you don't need 2 specific dps to be at an "optimal" state. The jobs shouldnt seperate it. It should be the player behind. If a NIN is super duper good he should be doing more damage than the DRG who's just good. By giving jobs "complexity" and reward good players without making the jobs feel like you have to be a Starcraft 2 pro and have 1mil APM.

I'm sure making jobs to be like that is prob super hard but Square Enix is a 5.1bilion dollar company. I'm sure they have some bright people there.

One more thing.
For god sake start testing you're jobs properly before releasing them. The state some jobs was in on release was dreadful. I mean you should actually play test it properly cause in all fairness i feel like for some jobs like AST/NIN/SMN that was not the case. You shouldnt have to have an IQ of 600 and a APM as a Starcraft 2 pro to play the jobs optimal. I would actually appricate if you guys would actually fill us in a bit more on how you balance things and how you make the decision you do. You'll probably see a lot less angry people around the forums if you did.

**Vendalwind** · 08-05-2019 12:50 PM

Honestly NIN doesnt need any more potency. He needs qol things that enhance dmg output. Ive listed a lot of options for this that would both be easy to implement and effective in other rework threads

Sam mostly does just need potency buffs. He plays smooth enough. Maybe some touch ups tp hagakure funtionality tho.

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