Thread: 5.05 "Balance" - Samurai and Ninja

Originally Posted by Niyuka

To be frank, if MNK SAM and NIN would put out the exact same rDPS, SAM would be meta because its easiest to play and needs no positionals.

You people arguing with Quor need to learn to read. Quor is simply pointing out that SAM HAS positionals, period. Read the quote from Niyuka, please. Quor is not saying which job is being punished more for missing positionals.

Originally Posted by Xephna

You people arguing with Quor need to learn to read. Quor is simply pointing out that SAM HAS positionals, period. Read the quote from Niyuka, please. Quor is not saying which job is being punished more for missing positionals.

The general sentiment of the post is this, however they DID specifically state that no other job is penalized as heavy as SAM for missing a positional. That's not true, as Ninja already has low DPS and missing a positional on Trick Attack completely removes its entire raid DPS contribution.

Aside the silly people fighting over who loses DPS more with no positional.
Samurai is in a bad spot once again, if they gave back Sam the real haga we would have been fine.

Originally Posted by Niyuka

To be frank, if MNK SAM and NIN would put out the exact same rDPS, SAM would be meta because its easiest to play and needs no positionals.

How are people still this misinformed? SAM loses a minimum of 64 potency if missing positionals on Gekko or Kasha due to the loss of Kenki.

Monk, on the other hand, has access to 30 additional seconds of positional freedom per 60 seconds via Riddle of Earth and only loses 20 potency per missed positional (effectively 30 per miss vs. SAM's 72.3). SAM has positionals on only 2 out of 6 weaponskills and MNK has them on all and MNK a further 7% attack speed, but even then, the difference isn't huge anymore; if accounting for Riddle of Earth, SAM is actually the one with more positional concern, not less.

Originally Posted by Darkstride

The general sentiment of the post is this, however they DID specifically state that no other job is penalized as heavy as SAM for missing a positional. That's not true, as Ninja already has low DPS and missing a positional on Trick Attack completely removes its entire raid DPS contribution.

Originally Posted by Vendalwind

snip

I get that part, but who the hell compares a raid buff to the potency from a weaponskill? That's changing the context of the argument, and is a bullshit way to try to "win" a point. The post was speaking about potency for attacks, not about raid-wide buffs or debuffs. People can't just go changing the context of something to suit themselves. It's disingenuous. If you're going that route then I can say that NIN far outperforms SAM because it has infinitely more rDPS, and all it has to do is nail a single positional. As Xephna stated, I wasn't referring to anything else but potency on positional attacks. Not rDPS. Not raid buffs/debuffs. Simple attack potency.

Hoping tsubame has a shorter CD and senei reverts back to its media tour potency

I don't know why I didn't think of this sooner, but now, with the new True North, there is no reason any NIN should ever miss TA. With a 45s CD per charge, NIN will always have at least one charge available to use on TA. SAM goes through it's combo roughly once every 15s on average. With an uptime of 10 out of 45s this means SAM can get 2 out of 6 positionals for "free" via TN and then has to shift position to land the others. No NIN should ever miss TA with the new True North. It would take someone purposefully going out of their way to blow TN charges and then screw up TA in order to "miss" it.

Originally Posted by Quor

I don't know why I didn't think of this sooner, but now, with the new True North, there is no reason any NIN should ever miss TA. With a 45s CD per charge, NIN will always have at least one charge available to use on TA. SAM goes through it's combo roughly once every 15s on average. With an uptime of 10 out of 45s this means SAM can get 2 out of 6 positionals for "free" via TN and then has to shift position to land the others. No NIN should ever miss TA with the new True North. It would take someone purposefully going out of their way to blow TN charges and then screw up TA in order to "miss" it.

Well, i mean i TRY to save it for TA, but often times i cant be behind my target for AE or flanking for AC... so if i have to be away from either position for any length of time ill pop it. (I know AE has the same positional req as TA, but sometimes TA still has a while left to go before its off cd, and mechanics force me to not be behind)