No DRK changes?

[Arsthan]

Why is this even a discussion. Sure, TBN is a great shield and no one is saying it isn't. On big pulls however, it pops after the first wave of auto attacks from the trash. Yes, it mitigated instantly 30k HP. But do tell me what your healer is supposed to do with 1 more GCD every 15 sec (in case you don't use Flood, which means you're not DPSing when you can. That is an issue on its own but let's not go there... for now) when the trash is going to utterly decimate your HP for the next 14-13 seconds; nothing much, you just die because while yes, you did mitigate 30k HP, you didn't mitigate the source of the consistent damage which is the most important thing on big pulls. Big difference between if the tank takes 40k with 20% reduction (instead of the original ~50k) every wave of attacks for a longer duration or reduces the first wave to nothing but takes the full damage afterwards. Burst mitigation is incredible for tank busters and such, but not so much for consistent damage - especially now that 700 potency heals do around 30-35k crits while leveling anyway. If you don't see the difference then I feel that you should try healing dungeons yourself. TBN helps, but isn't going to reliably safe you on trash pulls by any means, just delays outcome. Also don't forget that trash can crit too, which adds up VERY quickly.

Though I couldn't care less about the trash pulls honestly. I'd like to hear from someone why a tank is punished for doing its job, mitigating damage and staying alive. You pay a big chunk of your DPS as the first thing, then you get to pray to RNGus to make it pop so your DPS gets refunded. Yes, you can say that the player sucks if it doesn't pop, but the other tanks don't get punished for mitigating like that. If anything, a risk should be accompanied by a reward. The shield itself is not a reward, but a tool you need access to as a tank and whoever says the "refund on EoS" is the reward, just stop and think it through again. Not being punished is no reward - that's the norm and thus "High risk, no reward". What you guys are implying is the same as saying "My partner is beating me every day, but yesterday he didn't! He rewarded me!"
TBN's shield is great, but nowhere near worth all the things problems it comes with.

There are multiple things that can be done. 1) Removing the MP; 2) giving it a DPS gain if it pops (for all I care Dark Arts could be a free EoS and for example a +30% damage increase on it as well - there, you have your reward. There's an unending list of what it could do, even increase your speed for 15 seconds so you WANT to use it whenever you can - this would increase the ceiling though) but if you give it a DPS gain, do increase the duration to 9 or 10 seconds please... stressing about a shield is not good. 3) could be a mix of both: lowering the MP cost but leaving DA what it is today. But refunding at least half of the MP used on it if it doesn't break.

The great thing about HW DRK was that you were rewarded for good play with fun gameplay and quite a it of damage while punishing you if you didn't care for playing like you were supposed to. It just felt great. They're obviously trying to do something similar to that, but they're very visibly concerned about increasing the skill ceiling and lowering the floor. I do get where they're coming from since you want as many people playing as possible which means you don't want people to feel bad when compared to someone playing good. But that's no excuse to lower the ceiling so low that the people playing good don't get rewarded any more than the ones playing badly.

All in all, DRK should not be the only tank that gets punished for mitigating damage and instead of being refunded with a EoS, it should be a DPS gain if they plan to go down this route. How they do it it's completely up to SE. Oh and while we're at it, Dark Mind a is terrible and should be changed. Same thing for LD as I'd like to keep a Bene for better uses than to not die to my own skill, obviously.

Lastly, Blood Weapon and Delirium should be changed... Old BW is superior in both the mechanical and gameplay (fun) aspect, nothing much to add to that - people like the speed and IDK how others feel about it, but I prefered it to proc on oGCDs and auto attacks as well far more than purely on GCDs. Not to mention if they bring back old BW, it'd actually slightly increase the use of EoS and increase the DPS a little. Delirium is a tricky thing but change it somehow... anything but spamming one skill 5 times. I don't really care what it becomes as long as it doesn't stay like this. IR should be just WAR's thing (and no, Requiescat is not an IR copy, it's far closer to DWT if anything)

[kazzel120]

youd be oomp after the third tbn. You might get 6s of shield in that hypothetical.It is overated to me, if thats supposed to justify the rest of DRK kit. Since now I have to clarify DRK changes, this entire thread.


already been answered. several times
It certainly would be if it was Sch biggest heal- and that its other heals were half potency(or only healed magic damage) because, "its a big shield." Also, how long is adlo's shield duration? Not that itd last that long in a big pull anyway[forget even bringing it to rules that apply to TBN lets just move on from this comparison). Now that we're now comparing TBN to ADLO...instead of shelltron...or any other tanks kit.
The subject is "No DRK changes?" Sorry if I'm reviewing DRK as a whole, along with "changes", the subject hasnt changed at all this entire thread-
last part of the convo was a comparison of TBN to Shelltron, now it gets turned into how a free/not free 30k shield is so great, and im saying it doesnt justify the rest of the kit, or how its tied to damage.Therefore,in other words - itssssssssssss - overrated Some argued that the longer duration of things like shelltron(dont forget the shields passive mit.) are better for their sustained duration, over a shield that doesnt even last its maximum duration.

TBN is a good shield. But it doesnt justify its ties to damage. The cooldown is short, great. DOES IT NEED TO BE THE WAY IT IS? Hell no. As I've said multiple times, no it really doesnt, especially if its the sole reason DRK gets a gimped kit, as other people have stated.
So what if its a 30k shield that has to pop in 6 seconds(or its a dps loss). If it wasnt tied to the mp, it would have a crap ton more utility in a crap ton of situations. As it stands, I call it overrated in comparison - I will even call it unfair. A gimped kit, over 1 ability. That includes - get ready for it - Dark Mind, LD, and anything else gimp in DRK kit over one (1)skill. That skill, highly overrated to me. Again DRK has this really great TBN. Tell me what it can do better than the other tanks. What makes it stand out. Go ahead. Cause i bet it starts with a "T" and also ends with a "t" - and im just going to reply with that O word.

TBN has always been tied to mp. And 6 seconds is more then enough time to soak 30k hp lol. Its intended use is to spam for big pulls and use on demand for tank busters.

So the mp cost isn't as steep as you people act. If you cant manage mp on drk when you need it go play pld war or gnb. Fyi pld also has to manage mp but lets just bitch about drks dps and being mp dependant.

[Absimiliard]

So the mp cost isn't as steep as you people act. If you cant manage mp on drk when you need it go play pld war or gnb. Fyi pld also has to manage mp but lets just bitch about drks dps and being mp dependant.

Please don't send these people to GNB. If they can't handle DRK, they definitely can't handle GNB.

[MagiusNecros]

Please don't send these people to GNB. If they can't handle DRK, they definitely can't handle GNB.

Thanks for the laugh.

[kazzel120]

Please don't send these people to GNB. If they can't handle DRK, they definitely can't handle GNB.

Lol I play both and use either or depending if i want to MT or OT more.

[kazzel120]

Living dead should not be a resource vacuum

With all the healer changes,HUGE hp pool on tanks now and lack of conv has made it even worse

It takes 2 -3 + CDs on Ast and Sch to heal Drk up to max

It doesn't even need a rework just remove the death penalty

LD is not ment to be used for anything but cheesing a mechanic and as an EMERGENCY oh crap i might die button. Saying its a resource issue is a lie its used for those 2 things and healers know when they need to focus heals on the drk so again its fine how it is.

[SpiralMask]

LD is not ment to be used for anything but cheesing a mechanic and as an EMERGENCY oh crap i might die button. Saying its a resource issue is a lie its used for those 2 things and healers know when they need to focus heals on the drk so again its fine how it is.

problem is, if the tank's in a situation where they've got walking dead active, the healer generally doesn't have anything up--and you're certainly not gonna make it through 120+k hp with GCD heals in that time.
which will only get harder as better gear/hp scaling is released (because potencies will largely remain the same, and healing scales much poorer than hp does)

the most hilarious i've seen for people saying it's fine (not your post) "was oh [with SCH] you just use excog + recitaton + ET + adlo + lustrate + lustrate and it's fine" ...which is the majority of your cooldowns (and requires them all to be up and ready).
WHM gets a pass because their whole shtick is raw uprfont healing (with the always fun "bennyyyyyy"), but the other two aren't quite so lucky.

[SpiralMask]

on the OP's topic of lack of DRK changes: it's been shown to be a bad idea to do a major overhaul of a class the same day/patch as endgame or savage content. i wouldn't expect any foundational changes to anyone until at least 5.1, possibly even waiting into 5.2 with as stacked as they're saying 5.1 is (BLU updates, PVP updates, gold saucer updates, more dungeons, more story, etc etc)

so folks truly dissatisfied may have to take yoshi's age-old advice and break from the game for a bit if they cant find something else they find fun at present (less a "if you dont like it then leave" and more a "updates are on a static schedule, you can always pop in next update and see/try the new stuff").

[kazzel120]

problem is, if the tank's in a situation where they've got walking dead active, the healer generally doesn't have anything up--and you're certainly not gonna make it through 120+k hp with GCD heals in that time.
which will only get harder as better gear/hp scaling is released (because potencies will largely remain the same, and healing scales much poorer than hp does)

the most hilarious i've seen for people saying it's fine (not your post) "was oh [with SCH] you just use excog + recitaton + ET + adlo + lustrate + lustrate and it's fine" ...which is the majority of your cooldowns (and requires them all to be up and ready).
WHM gets a pass because their whole shtick is raw uprfont healing (with the always fun "bennyyyyyy"), but the other two aren't quite so lucky.

And again its not used enough to be an issue. LD or any invuln for that matter tend to only be used because others cant bother to do a mechanic (Titania because dps > all the thing) so they let the tank eat tethers. If your 2 healers cant manage to top you off before the debuff kills you idk what to say.

And i swear you people have never heard of HOLMGANG the most trash invuln lowest duration and 1 hp you have to cure the war to full or after that pathetic 6 second war dies too.

Only invuln thats not taxing is hollowed and people are just lazy and want to only want those dps numbers ill be damned if i have to heal a tank after they cheese a mechanic......

In case you'd like to know i rarely if ever use LD for anything but a mechanic cheese.

[Duskane]

Holmgang is great historically been used for cheese so much more than others even after the change its still a good CD

Plus if War is not topped up they won't instantly die at 70% HP when holmgang effect is done