No DRK changes?

[Alodos]

In my opinion drk is great now, I played it since HW as a main. I'm happy to see the Dark art gone now. TBN is perfect like in SB, it's a great tool and my friends healers love it. Maybe we can have a little push to our dps but not sure about that. The dark mind is great, almost all tank buster and raid buster are magic. My only complain atm is about delirium, why I would play War now ? ^^

[Sancho_Nyanta]

DRK is fine.
Its not perfect, like other tanks, but its in a really good spot right now.

While I would agree that they are fine, and in the best spot they've been in since HW, this doesn't necessarily mean that they aren't without some serious flaws that others don't have to deal with.

LD is the main offender that I am talking about. I don't mind the identity of a skill killing me like it does. In fact I actually like the high risk, high reward mentally. The problem with LD is that there is no big reward for your risk. If Walking Dead were a 20 sec (or something other time longer than the other invulns) Holmgang that would kill you without the healing then I'd assume people would be ok with it. As your reward is the longest invuln period in the game. Though I doubt they could do this since it would be quite difficult to balance fights around. Leaving the death as a big risk with no payout.

This is the same argument used on TBN and while I disagree with this to a point (as it becomes a free big shield if done right), I could agree that the reward for doing it correctly could be increased to be both an offensive and defensive reward.

The last thing is that while I do feel that War and Drk feel different, it is a fact that Delirium and Bloodspiller do reek of just being discount Inner Release and FC. There are numerous ways things that can be done to make them feel different. Even Pld has an IR and FC in Req and HS but unless you are doing your unga bunga phase they feel different.

[Alodos]

I'm not sure what you want with TBN, a 30K-40k hp shield is not a reward ? Maybe not for you but I'm sure your healer like it. If done correctly you can continue your dps and your healer too without spending gcd to heal you. After all you are a tank, I like the fact I need to manage my mp for that. Like in SB if you reach 0mp you'r dead.

[Sancho_Nyanta]

Oh don't get me wrong, I use the argument of that big beautiful shield as my point when people try to tell me that there is only risk and no reward for TBN. Personally I LOVE TBN but I could understand the argument for a bigger payoff, less MP cost, better MP regeneration to recover from a mistake, or a 2 more seconds to make popping it a bit more consistent. I could understand the argument for one of those 4.

[Duskane]

TBN is a great shield
but its also extremely awkward

7 seconds is very tight timing for a enemy to break 25% from a 110k+ hp pool
move was hell in Alliance raid for SB since you wanted it to break for blood
but now you will just edge of shadow which is nice

[Aelin_Ashryver]

TBN being the only tank move tied to your DPS resource is the issue. No other tank's mitigation eats their dps. Every TBN used is a prayer for it to pop or you lose DPS.
Next issue being the fact that due to TBN's existence devs don't give DRK another mitigation skill. But in a wall to wall BIG pull that tbn is gone in about 1.5seconds and then the other 13.5 seconds ur eating sooo much damage. While another tank has more cd to pop that will mitigate more over it's time period being active. Making dark mind mitigate BOTH phys and magic would fix this for me. Stop gimping my tank cuz of one skill that's really only great for tank busters or big but not TOO big pulls. Either that or shorten the cd on abyssal so I can get a few uses of it in such pulls.
And living dead please change it. I like the whole oh im dead but still walking thing. But make it like 50% heals then instead so I don't need a beni. Seeing it tick down and healers than aren't WHM don't even wanna attempt it anymore! In the space of 10s how is my astro meant to heal 110k+ hp say if both their insta heals are gone? The heals are about 20k each now and 30k if crit and it's rubbish to be reliant on crit heals or all oGCD heals being up to survive my "Invuln"
And for last, can we actually go back to being our own distinct feeling class? I hate this fell cleave rip off nonsense, they could have changed dark arts an given us our own good feeling rotation but they got lazy with the POSTER BOY CLASS and decided to jus toss us a fell cleave window that's worse than the original.

[Sancho_Nyanta]

I think people give too much credit to the % based mitigation and not enough to TBN simply because it pops and is gone but they can still see the others. The thing is that just because it popped and is gone, doesn't mean that it didn't mitigate as much as the other CDs. I've had several threads where I've talked about the math behind TBN (which I won't put again unless asked), and even though you aren't taking other hits raw, you are still equating to the damage completely mitigated by TBN. Additionally, while it is true that when you are pulling wall to wall that you will hit the amount of damage needed to exceed what TBN will mitigate in a single cast, you should also consider that you will get 2 TBN casts for every 1 RI/HoS/Sheltron. BTW, yes I know that you can cast Sheltron in rapid succession but it is my understanding that it takes about 30 seconds of auto attacks to generate the gauge.

[ExLegen]

TBN is a 30ksh shield, that is really good against heavy hiting attacks.

But its not near as good as a dmg reduction cd, when you are getting beaten by 6-10 mobs during 20+ seconds.

In trash dungeon pulls, Dark Mind is such a useless skill, and TBN pops so fast, that you find yourself in trouble if enemies arent low enough after rampart, shadow wall or arms lenght.
Thats specially sad if you consider how DRK could deal beautifully with big pulls in SB.

Edit: also, boring and lazy skills like living shadow, new delirium and new blood weapon just makes DRK way less interesting.

[ashwich]

How is TBN not as good a damage reduction cd in trash pulls? It's still 30K of your health. Take Shelltron for example. lets just say you block 20%, in order for it to mitigate 30K of your health, you'd have to have otherwise taken 150K HP worth of damage in the 5 seconds duration. Nothing hits that hard. that's 2 GCDs. DRK is the least squishy tank in wall-to-wall pulls currently.

SB DRK puts healers out of jobs. It had to be changed.

[kazzel120]

TBN being the only tank move tied to your DPS resource is the issue. No other tank's mitigation eats their dps. Every TBN used is a prayer for it to pop or you lose DPS.
Next issue being the fact that due to TBN's existence devs don't give DRK another mitigation skill. But in a wall to wall BIG pull that tbn is gone in about 1.5seconds and then the other 13.5 seconds ur eating sooo much damage. While another tank has more cd to pop that will mitigate more over it's time period being active. Making dark mind mitigate BOTH phys and magic would fix this for me. Stop gimping my tank cuz of one skill that's really only great for tank busters or big but not TOO big pulls. Either that or shorten the cd on abyssal so I can get a few uses of it in such pulls.
And living dead please change it. I like the whole oh im dead but still walking thing. But make it like 50% heals then instead so I don't need a beni. Seeing it tick down and healers than aren't WHM don't even wanna attempt it anymore! In the space of 10s how is my astro meant to heal 110k+ hp say if both their insta heals are gone? The heals are about 20k each now and 30k if crit and it's rubbish to be reliant on crit heals or all oGCD heals being up to survive my "Invuln"
And for last, can we actually go back to being our own distinct feeling class? I hate this fell cleave rip off nonsense, they could have changed dark arts an given us our own good feeling rotation but they got lazy with the POSTER BOY CLASS and decided to jus toss us a fell cleave window that's worse than the original.

Except if you're only using it for tank busters its intended use or for large pulls it breaks in a second and refunds the cost with dark arts so you lose nothing but gain a 35k hp buffer for hard hitting moves.