No DRK changes?

[Aizlluna]

The problem is dark knight does the lowest dps and has the lowest self sustain and one of the lowest group utility. Everyone says dark knight is fine because they have "the blackest night" well that's like just one ability. Out of a bunch. It's not like we all only just use one ability.

Take a look at paladin. Their entire kit has good abilities no matter the situation from single target with atonement, to group shields and group damage mitigation. With all those extra fancy utility skills including one of the best tank sustain in the game.

I dont know about you but I dont think it's too fair they get top dps on top of all that.

Did i also mention they get a massive AOE nuke with no falloff, the ability to equip shields that block more damage than we can parry and will only block more as shields get stronger AND invincibility with no downside?

[ADVSS]

The problem is dark knight does the lowest dps and has the lowest self sustain and one of the lowest group utility. Everyone says dark knight is fine because they have "the blackest night" well that's like just one ability. Out of a bunch. It's not like we all only just use one ability.

Take a look at paladin. Their entire kit has good abilities no matter the situation from single target with atonement, to group shields and group damage mitigation. With all those extra fancy utility skills including one of the best tank sustain in the game.

I dont know about you but I dont think it's too fair they get top dps on top of all that.

THANK YOU! This is exactly how I feel about DRK over all. Even in past iterations it was more work to do as good a job, but at least they could. Now? Less work, same result. I guess we will have to just wait and see, or shelve the job for a while.

Living dead should not be a resource vacuum

With all the healer changes,HUGE hp pool on tanks now and lack of conv has made it even worse

It takes 2 -3 + CDs on Ast and Sch to heal Drk up to max

It doesn't even need a rework just remove the death penalty

I agree with most of this, but things like total duration if done right, may need a change. Theres the fact too about WD not even getting to activate if you get Bene before hitting 1.. so I dunno. Like I said before, on paper looks great, in practice, its pretty horrendous without real time communication with the healers, and no visual indicators -if nothing else. For 1 tank cooldown, thats asking an awful lot , maybe not for raid statics, but all of the other content, it is.

[BarretOblivion]

So leveling DRK at post 70 as a WAR let me completely understand alot of DRKs frustrations.
Yes, DRK just became another WAR. Its disappointing their identity got tied to another job (which has its own problems of being 80% boring during its rotation) when they should have thier own identity.

Second the resource requirement for TBN now feels clunky. When playing PLD you don't use your resources for anything BUT defense which makes it fine to be tied to a resource. For DRK it doesn't feel good holding having to manage your resource to make sure you have your identity defensive cooldown ready while all other tanks don't have this issue.

Then there is Living Dead. Lets be real, its the worst tank invuln by far. The healing vaccum that it is isn't something any healer likes.

"Well just Bene it!" Isn't a good argument. In order for a DRK to be viable or even considered used then it would mean you have to also force another healer to go WHM. What if your healers don't like WHM? Then you get to the problem that if you don't have a WHM its a resource dump they have to into "panic mode" to heal you up to full. Even WAR with the fact its invuln doesn't mitigate damage is still better because they don't have to heal you to full in 5 sec. They just heal you enough to survive the follow up attacks before topping you off.

[Alodos]

In my opinion drk is great now, I played it since HW as a main. I'm happy to see the Dark art gone now. TBN is perfect like in SB, it's a great tool and my friends healers love it. Maybe we can have a little push to our dps but not sure about that. The dark mind is great, almost all tank buster and raid buster are magic. My only complain atm is about delirium, why I would play War now ? ^^

[Sancho_Nyanta]

DRK is fine.
Its not perfect, like other tanks, but its in a really good spot right now.

While I would agree that they are fine, and in the best spot they've been in since HW, this doesn't necessarily mean that they aren't without some serious flaws that others don't have to deal with.

LD is the main offender that I am talking about. I don't mind the identity of a skill killing me like it does. In fact I actually like the high risk, high reward mentally. The problem with LD is that there is no big reward for your risk. If Walking Dead were a 20 sec (or something other time longer than the other invulns) Holmgang that would kill you without the healing then I'd assume people would be ok with it. As your reward is the longest invuln period in the game. Though I doubt they could do this since it would be quite difficult to balance fights around. Leaving the death as a big risk with no payout.

This is the same argument used on TBN and while I disagree with this to a point (as it becomes a free big shield if done right), I could agree that the reward for doing it correctly could be increased to be both an offensive and defensive reward.

The last thing is that while I do feel that War and Drk feel different, it is a fact that Delirium and Bloodspiller do reek of just being discount Inner Release and FC. There are numerous ways things that can be done to make them feel different. Even Pld has an IR and FC in Req and HS but unless you are doing your unga bunga phase they feel different.

[Alodos]

I'm not sure what you want with TBN, a 30K-40k hp shield is not a reward ? Maybe not for you but I'm sure your healer like it. If done correctly you can continue your dps and your healer too without spending gcd to heal you. After all you are a tank, I like the fact I need to manage my mp for that. Like in SB if you reach 0mp you'r dead.

[Sancho_Nyanta]

Oh don't get me wrong, I use the argument of that big beautiful shield as my point when people try to tell me that there is only risk and no reward for TBN. Personally I LOVE TBN but I could understand the argument for a bigger payoff, less MP cost, better MP regeneration to recover from a mistake, or a 2 more seconds to make popping it a bit more consistent. I could understand the argument for one of those 4.

[Duskane]

TBN is a great shield
but its also extremely awkward

7 seconds is very tight timing for a enemy to break 25% from a 110k+ hp pool
move was hell in Alliance raid for SB since you wanted it to break for blood
but now you will just edge of shadow which is nice

[Aelin_Ashryver]

TBN being the only tank move tied to your DPS resource is the issue. No other tank's mitigation eats their dps. Every TBN used is a prayer for it to pop or you lose DPS.
Next issue being the fact that due to TBN's existence devs don't give DRK another mitigation skill. But in a wall to wall BIG pull that tbn is gone in about 1.5seconds and then the other 13.5 seconds ur eating sooo much damage. While another tank has more cd to pop that will mitigate more over it's time period being active. Making dark mind mitigate BOTH phys and magic would fix this for me. Stop gimping my tank cuz of one skill that's really only great for tank busters or big but not TOO big pulls. Either that or shorten the cd on abyssal so I can get a few uses of it in such pulls.
And living dead please change it. I like the whole oh im dead but still walking thing. But make it like 50% heals then instead so I don't need a beni. Seeing it tick down and healers than aren't WHM don't even wanna attempt it anymore! In the space of 10s how is my astro meant to heal 110k+ hp say if both their insta heals are gone? The heals are about 20k each now and 30k if crit and it's rubbish to be reliant on crit heals or all oGCD heals being up to survive my "Invuln"
And for last, can we actually go back to being our own distinct feeling class? I hate this fell cleave rip off nonsense, they could have changed dark arts an given us our own good feeling rotation but they got lazy with the POSTER BOY CLASS and decided to jus toss us a fell cleave window that's worse than the original.

[Sancho_Nyanta]

I think people give too much credit to the % based mitigation and not enough to TBN simply because it pops and is gone but they can still see the others. The thing is that just because it popped and is gone, doesn't mean that it didn't mitigate as much as the other CDs. I've had several threads where I've talked about the math behind TBN (which I won't put again unless asked), and even though you aren't taking other hits raw, you are still equating to the damage completely mitigated by TBN. Additionally, while it is true that when you are pulling wall to wall that you will hit the amount of damage needed to exceed what TBN will mitigate in a single cast, you should also consider that you will get 2 TBN casts for every 1 RI/HoS/Sheltron. BTW, yes I know that you can cast Sheltron in rapid succession but it is my understanding that it takes about 30 seconds of auto attacks to generate the gauge.