SMN; How do poison DoTs fit the class?

[Dyvid]

But does it apply as an egi/primal power summoner to use common poisons as attacks?

Not sure what you mean there but if you are asking me if it makes sense? Sure. Arcanist used Miasma and Bio as offensive attacks along with pet and SMN is an extension of ACN. Arcane is literally defined as "known or understood by very few; mysterious; secret; obscure; esoteric". Does it make sense that Thunder and Aero spell is a DoT yet Verthunder and Veraero aren't? Does it make since Bard use a Bow and Arrow? No because while the jobs my be different some old FF games it works in FFXIV environment. The ultimate question though does this change demise your enjoyment of playing the job? That is a matter of opinions and everyone likes something different. The good news though is that FFXIV provide player with a wide ranges of jobs that play differently. It's more important to find the job you actually enjoy rather than play the one you want to enjoy.

[HeulGDarian]

Not sure what you mean there but if you are asking me if it makes sense? Sure. Arcanist used Miasma and Bio as offensive attacks along with pet and SMN is an extension of ACN. Arcane is literally defined as "known or understood by very few; mysterious; secret; obscure; esoteric". Does it make sense that Thunder and Aero spell is a DoT yet Verthunder and Veraero aren't? Does it make since Bard use a Bow and Arrow? No because while the jobs my be different some old FF games it works in FFXIV environment. The ultimate question though does this change demise your enjoyment of playing the job? That is a matter of opinions and everyone likes something different. The good news though is that FFXIV provide player with a wide ranges of jobs that play differently. It's more important to find the job you actually enjoy rather than play the one you want to enjoy.

Thank you finally someone reasonable

[Taranok]

Ok but look at ACN as a whole rather than a section. It's pet was dps based, it's abilities are dps based, it's role is dps. The only healing aspect of ACN is physick and resurrection. SMN is a Pet/DoT based job since 2013 and there is no need to move away from that. DoTs are easy to apply and give you sustain damage overtime so you can focus on other aspects like command Egi and Demi Phase cycles.

And if you define ACN's core rotation and compare it to a modern day summoner, you would notice that the modern day SMN has downplayed and expunged so much of ACN's core mechanics that ACN is all but orphaned from Summoner now, in terms of expressing Summoner's core job identity, which as of SB is defined around the demi-primals and nothing else.

If you look at mechanics that exemplify the demi side of Summoner, you see it's mostly new mechanics added post-ARR and, especially, refined in SB/ShB. If you look at mechanics that never really exemplified being a Summoner, it's all ACN stuff and things built on to ACN to make ACN busier, but not really fulfilling the Summoner job identity. The egis, aetherflow blowing up DoTs and, of course, the DoTs themselves.

Hell, there isn't a single mechanic of ACN that is mandatory towards demi summons short of the mere existence of an egi being out on the field. A mechanic that can literally be described as a permanent, untargetable, unremovable (outside of SMN death or choice) DoT that the class barely interacts with anymore. It is a pale mockery of the original, horribly implemented Egis, and they could literally be removed and Summoner at a job identity level would feel better for it, not worse.

So if you look at SMN and ACN as a whole, the modern summoner is a job that is bipolar, tied to its old ACN roots of being a DoT/Egi class that explodes its DoTs but with those aspects severely diminished mechanically towards expressing SMN, and the modern day SMN that's focusing the job around the awesome Demi-primals, and the only reason the 2 are relevant to each other is because the devs haven't decided to gut the old ACN mechanics in favor of pushing the modern, more streamlined Demi mechanics primarily. The devs so far lack the will to enact the vision of summoner that they themselves have seen in SB and ShB as expressed by trances summoning demi-primals.

The original core of Summoner is dying a very slow, and very painful death as the class moves towards becoming a "true" FFXIV summoner, and just objectively observing the prominence of mechanics through various expansion cycles paints this loud and clear.

[HeulGDarian]

And if you define ACN's core rotation and compare it to a modern day summoner, you would notice that the modern day SMN has downplayed and expunged so much of ACN's core mechanics that ACN is all but orphaned from Summoner now, in terms of expressing Summoner's core job identity, which as of SB is defined around the demi-primals and nothing else.

If you look at mechanics that exemplify the demi side of Summoner, you see it's mostly new mechanics added post-ARR and, especially, refined in SB/ShB. If you look at mechanics that never really exemplified being a Summoner, it's all ACN stuff and things built on to ACN to make ACN busier, but not really fulfilling the Summoner job identity. The egis, aetherflow blowing up DoTs and, of course, the DoTs themselves.

Hell, there isn't a single mechanic of ACN that is mandatory towards demi summons short of the mere existence of an egi being out on the field. A mechanic that can literally be described as a permanent, untargetable, unremovable (outside of SMN death or choice) DoT that the class barely interacts with anymore. It is a pale mockery of the original, horribly implemented Egis, and they could literally be removed and Summoner at a job identity level would feel better for it, not worse.

So if you look at SMN and ACN as a whole, the modern summoner is a job that is bipolar, tied to its old ACN roots of being a DoT/Egi class that explodes its DoTs but with those aspects severely diminished mechanically towards expressing SMN, and the modern day SMN that's focusing the job around the awesome Demi-primals, and the only reason the 2 are relevant to each other is because the devs haven't decided to gut the old ACN mechanics in favor of pushing the modern, more streamlined Demi mechanics primarily. The devs so far lack the will to enact the vision of summoner that they themselves have seen in SB and ShB as expressed by trances summoning demi-primals.

The original core of Summoner is dying a very slow, and very painful death as the class moves towards becoming a "true" FFXIV summoner, and just objectively observing the prominence of mechanics through various expansion cycles paints this loud and clear.

Demi summons are still summons a different kind of summon but summons nonetheless. you can see that pheonix just like the egis he has a devotion effect , an enkindle , autos , and 2 spells that are commanded from us. aetherflow and not this knock off we got that is energy drain was literally the reason we could make plays . Trance not only interacts with our ruin spells but also gives us a free refresh on our dots and even a third dot that interacts with our ruins . no matter what your arcanist spells had to be used in order for you to summon . from using aetherflow to trancing the aetherflow into dreadwyrm to summon the demis .The whole journey was how to make better summons meanwhile we learned new ways to utilize the aetherflow that we got from the arcanist and our dots and ruins became more powerful. Even on the playstyle bahamut to do the most damage we had to have aetheflow actions. And now the demis empower our own ruins giving us control of their spells.

[HeulGDarian]

And if you define ACN's core rotation and compare it to a modern day summoner, you would notice that the modern day SMN has downplayed and expunged so much of ACN's core mechanics that ACN is all but orphaned from Summoner now, in terms of expressing Summoner's core job identity, which as of SB is defined around the demi-primals and nothing else.

If you look at mechanics that exemplify the demi side of Summoner, you see it's mostly new mechanics added post-ARR and, especially, refined in SB/ShB. If you look at mechanics that never really exemplified being a Summoner, it's all ACN stuff and things built on to ACN to make ACN busier, but not really fulfilling the Summoner job identity. The egis, aetherflow blowing up DoTs and, of course, the DoTs themselves.

Hell, there isn't a single mechanic of ACN that is mandatory towards demi summons short of the mere existence of an egi being out on the field. A mechanic that can literally be described as a permanent, untargetable, unremovable (outside of SMN death or choice) DoT that the class barely interacts with anymore. It is a pale mockery of the original, horribly implemented Egis, and they could literally be removed and Summoner at a job identity level would feel better for it, not worse.

So if you look at SMN and ACN as a whole, the modern summoner is a job that is bipolar, tied to its old ACN roots of being a DoT/Egi class that explodes its DoTs but with those aspects severely diminished mechanically towards expressing SMN, and the modern day SMN that's focusing the job around the awesome Demi-primals, and the only reason the 2 are relevant to each other is because the devs haven't decided to gut the old ACN mechanics in favor of pushing the modern, more streamlined Demi mechanics primarily. The devs so far lack the will to enact the vision of summoner that they themselves have seen in SB and ShB as expressed by trances summoning demi-primals.

The original core of Summoner is dying a very slow, and very painful death as the class moves towards becoming a "true" FFXIV summoner, and just objectively observing the prominence of mechanics through various expansion cycles paints this loud and clear.

they even tried to make it more interactive by making the ruins interact with dots further.
Arcanist isn't dieing a slow death you are asking that they kill it . you wanted more control with the egis well here you got them . oh you didn't like aetherflows lockdown here have trance instead . how about more damage on ruins here they interact with dots now. Maybe make the job more streamlined here bahamut doesn wyrmwave on aetherflow abilities now it's worse and the whole thing is more rigid Nothing happened that wasn't asked except one thing demi pheonix and it's the only thing that works properly The devs listen to your feedback it's not summoner who is bipolar it's you who don't know what do you want if you don't like how the summoner iteration is in ff14 lorewise and systemwise play another job im tired of the stupid argument to split arcanist summoner and scholar they fixed the stats problem 2 years ago move on.