Give RDM Water and Blizzard already!

[Gruntler]

You mean the same blue animation AST uses for a "starry" ambience?

That is sufficient.

Mate I think they just chose to have it be blue, that isn't proof that it's aspected.

Yes it is. The unaspected cast animation is white with rainbow effects. The fact it doesn't have those means it's not unaspected. Seeing as fire is red-orange (same as its element's icon), aero and cure are green (same as wind's icon), earth spells like Summon 2 and Summon Selene are orange (same as earth's icon), blizzard's a pale blue (same as the ice icon), and thunder's a purple (same as lightning's icon), then vercure, which has the same hue of blue as the water icon, is water-aspected by process of elimination.

And if they did choose to have it be a different aspect than Cure so it's not actually descended, then there's nothing keeping them from Verwater now, is there?

Red Magic is birthed in the Calamity of Water. Their entire lore is that they exist to oppose future calamities, as a response to the most recent one before the Seventh. It makes sense that such a group would take the same aether that was used to cause great destruction and death, and turn it to a curative force that restores life. That magic, above all else, would have been the magic they used most common and most often; and the aether type they had in purest abundance and imbalance.

As an aside: Astromancy was developed by Sharlayan, and Sharlayan originates from the same events and the same camp of refugees that formed Red Magic. The Red Mages were the ones that got off the boat at Gyr Abania (the boat is still there) and the Sharlayans got off later. The curing magic tradition used by Sharlayan -also- uses water-aspected curing. Their patron diety is also water-aspected, Althyk, and the ruins of New Sharlayan are over-aspected in water-aether.

it just says: deals damage with a potency of

Which makes them physical attacks.

If I summon a sword of ice, and I stab you with it, leaving gash after gash with the sharpness of the blade, puncturing you till you bleed, that isn't damage caused by cold, any more than if I pick up a rock and beat you over the head with it, will you start taking earth-aspected magick damage. That weapon you got from titan is most certainly earth-aspected and fashioned through earth-aspected aether. The wounds it delivers are physical, not 'non-aspected' magic.

[Archwizard]

then vercure, which has the same hue of blue as the water icon, is water-aspected by process of elimination.

I'm sorry, did you just say you're basing its water aspect on "process of elimination." Really.

K.

This might be a good time to point out that by comparison, Esuna (a VERY deep blue) and Benefic/Vercure (sort of a silvery blue, borderline purple in darker areas) have different shades of blue in their cast animations. In fact, Benefic/Vercure's animations have more in common with the job switch than any other spell.
Virtually all oGCDs including Fleche, Corps-a-corps, Acceleration, and notably WHM's very watery Fluid Aura and Divine Benison also share a blue color animation, although it's more of an aquamarine. Sort of the same color of the orb that forms when CNJs and RDMs use white magic. Funnily enough, the same aquamarine color animation is shared by SCH's Art of War... and enemies who cast Water.

I mean, if we're just being that level of pedantic about effect colors, right?

So either Fleche has a better chance of being a water spell than Vercure does, or the devs just really like reusing blue color effects. Either way though, Vercure isn't water-aspected, and it's worth noting that the "rainbow" effect only applies to damaging unaspected spells, so...

Which makes them physical attacks.

If I summon a sword of ice, and I stab you with it, leaving gash after gash with the sharpness of the blade, puncturing you till you bleed, that isn't damage caused by cold, any more than if I pick up a rock and beat you over the head with it, will you start taking earth-aspected magick damage. That weapon you got from titan is most certainly earth-aspected and fashioned through earth-aspected aether. The wounds it delivers are physical, not 'non-aspected' magic.

By that logic if you summoned an elephant-sized glacier and dropped it on an enemy it should be blunt damage, rather than ice-aspected magick damage.

Oh wait.

Okay, how about if I summon a bunch of feathers to rain down on you. Surely the fact that you're being skewered by pinions means it's piercing damage, right?

Also not so much.

But that's just 'cuz they were summoned magically from concentrated aether, right - oh. Wait.

And that's before I get into our Enchanted Melee attacks. Y'know, where you're getting straight-up stabbed. With a sword. For unaspected magick damage.

Also, just to be clear, when Contre Sixte summons "ice" swords that detonate on impact with the target, the fact that it doesn't deal ice damage is because the explosion had element "stab" instead of a magical one?

[Jukebox12]

Water based offensive spells are forbidden

[Archwizard]

Fleche and Contre Sixte are ice spells: they are literally icicle rapiers flying around.

As for water-based spell: the only offensive spell player has access to is Fluid Aura (CNJ/WHM). Even a class that is based on the element don't have offensive water spell. I feel all CNJ/WHM healing spells are somehow water aspected... A bit like Legend of Mana

Fleche and Contre Sixte could just as easily be crystallized aether, and the fact they don't deal ice damage is pretty damning. Until Yoshi-P comes out and says "oh, that IS your ice magic," I won't accept that.

Also, not true. NIN and BLU both have water damage effects. In fact they're the only jobs with skills of every element, to my knowledge.

Water based offensive spells are forbidden

Gonna need a source on that, buddy.

[Cled-cat]

Fleche and Contre Sixte are ice spells: they are literally icicle rapiers flying around.

As for water-based spell: the only offensive spell player has access to is Fluid Aura (CNJ/WHM). Even a class that is based on the element don't have offensive water spell. I feel all CNJ/WHM healing spells are somehow water aspected... A bit like Legend of Mana

Nope, apparently healing spells are wind-aspected, I think that was cited in one of the lore books too. Fluid Aura isn’t even an offensive spell anymore since they stripped its damage off, it’s useless now.

[PatronasCharm]

Since SE ended up adjusting MP Consumption from RDM Spells to help with the overall MP issues with the last patch, the idea I had went through minor adjustments. You can read it in the main post now. Come on SE, give RDM access to the entire elemental wheel!

[Archwizard]

If I may make a couple suggestions for the OP:

• Neither needs to be rank II spells. You could, for instance, name them Verflood and Verfreeze (which I think rolls off the tongue better than Verwater and Verblizzard). If they decide to add single-target variants later, great! If they don't, we won't have to wonder why we have Rank II before Rank I. Hell, you could even make a lore argument for why we have a flood spell when WHMs still don't have Water.
• Neither needs to be exclusive to AoE or single-target. Consider Afflatus Misery for WHMs, Deathflare for SMN or Foul for 70-79 BLMs -- all spells with high on-target potency and some peripheral damage, to be of use in both. All it needs is a means to be activated regardless of target quantity (be it a timer, or perhaps proc rates off both ST and AoE skills like Thundercloud), and a strong enough value to interrupt our current rotation to use.
• Now that our costs have been reduced, you don't necessarily need to have them refund MP either (and as I said before, I object highly to MP recovery being tied to RNG, and would much rather have any folded into a predictable part of the base rotation) -- but you could simply make them MP-free, which would still significantly reduce the upkeep cost of our rotation depending on activation rate (just look at WHM with its Lily heals). Unlike BLM, we face no penalty to our DPS for having MP left over!

[PatronasCharm]

If I may make a couple suggestions for the OP:
[List][*]Neither needs to be rank II spells. You could, for instance, name them Verflood and Verfreeze (which I think rolls off the tongue better than Verwater and Verblizzard). If they decide to add single-target variants later, great! If they don't, we won't have to wonder why we have Rank II before Rank I. Hell, you could even make a lore argument for why we have a flood spell when WHMs still don't have Water.

That is a good suggestion, and yes, since Freeze is an AoE for BLM, that would be a good make it that rather than Verblizzard II. I'll adjust it and write your name down as the person who suggested it. That would give RDM access to Freeze / Blizzard and Water / Flood. Without really changing the RDM Dynamic, with Dualcast and it's constant working to build up White and Black mana.

So have a 25% chance for Veraero II to trigger: Verflood / 25% chance for Verthunder II to trigger Verfreeze, higher potency AoE that yields more White / Black Mana.

Thanks for the feedback, always appreciated =)

[Bright-Flower]

I thought that verwater/verblizard would have been good aoes to go for but nope, they went for 'II' versions of existing spells to my disapointment. Would have been neat to get a caster with access to all six elements. Ninja is still the only job that has all six.

[Destati]

To my understanding (and anyone is free to correct me on this), when 2.0 dropped they gave BLM and WHM three of the six elements to focus on, with BLM getting Fire, Blizzard, and Thunder and WHM receiving Aero/Wind, Water, and Stone/Earth. In 1.0 this wasn't the case and both classes/jobs were able to use all six elements in gameplay.
Water certainly has the least presence of all the elements in the game and I can only think of two actions off the top of my head - NIN's Suiton and WHM's Fluid Aura, the latter of which has been steadily butchered over the years (it originally dealt damage and had a knockback and bind effect but as of ShB it only binds the target). I've always found it odd that WHM only focuses on 2 of the 3 elements that it was given whereas BLM utilizes all three of their own quite well.
To finally move away from my digression I would just really like to see more utilization of the water element overall for WHM and by that same token, RDM (after all Red Magic was adapted in part from White Magic). Please make it happen, SE!