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  1. #1
    Player
    eagledorf's Avatar
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    Oct 2013
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    610
    Character
    Jugem Mumei
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 37

    Thoughts on PLD healing

    I know there's been very little discussion of PLD because it and GNB seem to be in a pretty good place (as far as we can tell right now). These are just my musings on things that feel awkward right now and could perhaps use adjustment, but I thought maybe some people had similar thoughts.
    • The buff to healing magic only for Requiescat should probably be reduced, maybe all the way down to 20% again. PLD's maximum healing output on other party members is a little too high right now, you can basically be the only healer in dungeons. (Changing the MP cost or potency would mess up other things is why I think Requiescat.)
    • Divine Veil should work on self. It's the only tank skill like this that doesn't and is already awkward because most single-target healing won't trigger it. It would compensate for lost self-healing if Requiescat was nerfed. Alternatively, the requirement for a heal should just be removed because of the 5.0 changes to healers.

    Basically: currently PLD can throw out 5x 2700 potency instant heals during Requiescat if the cast is on somebody other than yourself. Since Convalescence was removed the buff to Requiescat makes sense, but when it's used on other party members it's excessive.

    Currently, a good WHM or AST is likely to not trigger Divine Veil because they heal so much with abilities instead of spells. Granting the shield to yourself would make Divine Veil useful in more content even if you have to cast Clemency on yourself to trigger it. The only issue here is SCH are more likely to trigger it than the other healers due to the fairy.
    (1)
    Last edited by eagledorf; 07-28-2019 at 09:04 PM.

  2. #2
    Player
    TheForce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
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    390
    Character
    The Protector
    World
    Aegis
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    No.

    PLD already got its fair share of nerfs. Cover was hit hard, our main source of mitigation (block) was hit hard, and we lost Flash which essentially was a defensive CD. Leave PLD alone. This nerf that you're proposing is so unnecessary.
    (6)
    Last edited by TheForce; 07-28-2019 at 09:04 PM.

  3. #3
    Player
    Thela's Avatar
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    Aug 2014
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    204
    Character
    Thela Ivora
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 80
    While true that you can effectively be a healer for 5 GCD's every minute, dungeons are not really valid content to be making balance decisions on. In content where it matters (aka savage or even ultimate) it matters very little, you might be able to salvage things going south for a little while but its not gonna change a whole lot in the grand scheme of things for the outcome most of the time.

    That being said, personally i don't really care either way if they nerf it or not. I hardly ever use it except as emergency.

    As for Divine Veil, i still have no idea why they didn't fix it this expansion, seeing it expire all the time just feels terrible.
    (1)
    Last edited by Thela; 07-28-2019 at 09:02 PM.

  4. #4
    Player
    eagledorf's Avatar
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    Oct 2013
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    610
    Character
    Jugem Mumei
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 37
    Quote Originally Posted by Thela View Post
    While true that you can effectively be a healer for 5 GCD's every minute, dungeons are not really valid content to be making balance decisions on. In content where it matters (aka savage or even ultimate) it matters very little, you might be able to salvage things going south for a little while but its not gonna change a whole lot in the grand scheme of things for the outcome most of the time.

    That being said, personally i don't really care either way if they nerf it or not. I hardly ever use it except as emergency.

    As for Divine Veil, i still have no idea why they didn't fix it this expansion, seeing it expire all the time just feels terrible.
    As you point out, it's not something you want to do in progression content, but I've replaced the healer several times now in dungeons and I think that probably shouldn't be possible to completely usurp their role. In savage content, I figure Clemency wasting a GCD is balanced by the shield.

    Regarding Divine Veil, I think it's worse now. AST gets 2x Essential Dignity and SCH lost Energy Drain and Bane so they basically are trying to burn their Aetherflow on Lustrate.
    (0)

  5. #5
    Player
    ZellosWilder's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
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    105
    Character
    Zellos Wilder
    World
    Lich
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by eagledorf View Post
    Basically: currently PLD can throw out 5x 2700 potency instant heals during Requiescat if the cast is on somebody other than yourself. Since Convalescence was removed the buff to Requiescat makes sense, but when it's used on other party members it's excessive.
    I thought only the first 2 heals under the effect of Req gave an increase in potency by 50% because the 3rd heal would mean your MP would be under 80%, also if the normal potency of Clemency is 1200 then only first 2 heals will be 1800 and the last 3 would be the normal 1200 so not sure how you came to x5 2700 potency heal instant casts.

    Quote Originally Posted by eagledorf View Post
    Currently, a good WHM or AST is likely to not trigger Divine Veil because they heal so much with abilities instead of spells. Granting the shield to yourself would make Divine Veil useful in more content even if you have to cast Clemency on yourself to trigger it. The only issue here is SCH are more likely to trigger it than the other healers due to the fairy.
    Just create a macro with an alert telling your party chat that you have used divine veil and need a cure for protection barrier.

    I use Divine Veil all the time in extreme and eden and it always triggers you don't even need the healer to know you have used it as you can time it in between the bosses AoE where the healer then uses AoE heals which always trigger it.

    Although I do agree that Divine Veil should also give yourself the buff.
    (0)

  6. #6
    Player
    eagledorf's Avatar
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    Oct 2013
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    610
    Character
    Jugem Mumei
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 37
    Quote Originally Posted by ZellosWilder View Post
    I thought only the first 2 heals under the effect of Req gave an increase in potency by 50% because the 3rd heal would mean your MP would be under 80%, also if the normal potency of Clemency is 1200 then only first 2 heals will be 1800 and the last 3 would be the normal 1200 so not sure how you came to x5 2700 potency heal instant casts.



    Just create a macro with an alert telling your party chat that you have used divine veil and need a cure for protection barrier.

    I use Divine Veil all the time in extreme and eden and it always triggers you don't even need the healer to know you have used it as you can time it in between the bosses AoE where the healer then uses AoE heals which always trigger it.

    Although I do agree that Divine Veil should also give yourself the buff.
    Requiescat grants 50% buff on all 5 casts as long as you have 80% MP when you use the Requiescat skill. If it didn't work this way, you would just end it on your third cast. If you cast Clemency on a party member under Requiescat, you get 1800 potency on the target you heal and another 900 potency on yourself because of the drain effect.

    Macro spamming like that is obnoxious. If you're raiding, you use voice chat to communicate and in DF a 10% shield doesn't matter enough to beg for a healer to waste a GCD they had other plans for. Maybe I'm just traumatized from silence macros.
    (0)
    Last edited by eagledorf; 07-28-2019 at 09:26 PM.

  7. #7
    Player
    Kolsykol's Avatar
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    Jul 2015
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    3,024
    Character
    Aelona Chillwind
    World
    Lich
    Main Class
    Ninja Lv 100
    If you're casting Clemency you're not dps:ing.
    If you have to cast Clemency your healer is asleep, I honestly don't see the problem.

    Yeah, it kinda sucks a bit that other tanks ain't as self-sufficient but oh well.
    The way that you're phrasing it tho makes it sound as if it's just free heals and as if the PLD isn't sacrificing anything for it.
    (2)

  8. #8
    Player
    ZellosWilder's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
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    105
    Character
    Zellos Wilder
    World
    Lich
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by eagledorf View Post
    Requiescat grants 50% buff on all 5 casts as long as you have 80% MP when you use the Requiescat skill. If it didn't work this way, you would just end it on your third cast. If you cast Clemency on a party member under Requiescat, you get 1800 potency on the target you heal and another 900 potency on yourself because of the drain effect.
    I just tested it and you are correct I thought it was 50% only for the first 2 casts as your MP goes below 80%, always thought the 1st 2 did more kinda strange... I guess I misunderstood how it works.

    Quote Originally Posted by eagledorf View Post
    Macro spamming like that is obnoxious. If you're raiding, you use voice chat to communicate and in DF a 10% shield doesn't matter enough to beg for a healer to waste a GCD they had other plans for. Maybe I'm just traumatized from silence macros.
    I disagree with this though when doing extreme or raids you ain't always in a static and on voice chat and because you are doing stuff with randomers with different skill levels you don't expect them to know how other job actions work. Same goes for when using a macro for Hallowed Ground it helps a tonne when the healer knows you are invul and don't need healing for the next 10secs.

    The macro also helps when there is another PLD in a group that also uses divine veil no point in both using it at the same time.

    Using a macro isn't obnoxious, never had anyone complain about it once since HW when PLD first got Divine Veil so I don't get that. As for the 10% shield it saves players in a DF group as it has done before, healers heal less then as well if you have a skill that you can use and it be useful during AoE attacks why would you not use it?
    (0)
    Last edited by ZellosWilder; 07-28-2019 at 09:51 PM.

  9. #9
    Player
    Specterfuge's Avatar
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    Sep 2016
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    7
    Character
    Specter Fugi
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 80
    Divine veil needs tweaked in some capacity, clemency is fine. Being able to heal the two dps when the healer bricks a mechanic was more a thing in stormblood than it is now. PLD lacks a lot of the defensives it used to have that made 3manning final bosses in dungeons a breeze. It can still be done if the boss is at a decent percentage but bosses with too much aoe (Quetzalcotl) will still burn through the PLDs mp and eventually there's no way to recover.
    (0)

  10. #10
    Player
    Connor's Avatar
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    Feb 2013
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    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    2,136
    Character
    Connor Whelan
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 100
    I feel like Clemency balances itself out as a healing skill because of its nature as a spell. If it didn’t cost a GCD and/or was resourceless, it could understand it potentially breaking. In my experience as a healer anyway, I haven’t felt like Clemency was too powerful compared to what other tools tanks have.

    Also as an aside, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a Paladin use Clemency during Requiescat window, though maybe I’m just not paying enough attention (hard to see what people are doing when your screen is clogged with Art of War lol)
    (1)

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