Ran'ji > WoD + Oracle of Light + Scorn!?

[Hazama999]

I know that the WoL is far, far from invincible, but we have one hell of a resume. I played through the MSQ, expecting to find some reason as to how this man could be so powerful... but whatever was shown to us, it felt rather limp. I'm not denying that there were reasons to support Ran'jit's strength, but to me, it felt he still needed to be supported with some degree of mental gymnastics in order to make it work.

It just felt like he was stronger than us because the story required him to be stronger than us. In short, plot armor.

[Theodric]

The story would be very dull if every enemy was cut down with minimal difficulty. As for 'plot armour', that goes both ways - some of the antagonists are clad in it at times yet the vast majority of major protagonist characters are also clad in it. Unless both are considered to be an issue then there's little point in debating the matter.

[RopeDrink]

Ran'Jit disabled the Scion's before disabling the WoL. This only looks like a 'defeat' because, for story purposes, the duty ends at that point with the WoL remaining CC'd, but there is nothing to indicate that we were totally defeated other than the timely end to the duty. This is not the same compared to, say, Zenos invading Rhalgr's reach and quite literally cutting us down and sending us helplessly flying across the floor like a rag-doll.

As such, you need to respect just how obnoxious our status is from a story-telling perspective. By the time a player reaches ShB (assuming they've done the majority of content), then the WoL has taken down so many massive threats, monsters, tyrants and primals that, by rights, nothing should touch them. If they uphold this, it's very difficult to make any threat seem legitimate. If they have you on your knees for a story purpose, the typical reaction is "Huh? But I'm the unstoppable WoL!"

Having said that, ShB did a good job representing both sides. From the 'Wow, who are you? How did you do all that amazing stuff?' to being borderline broken by light, or the moments where you still got crippled in a fight vs a big-bad, or were shown how your handiwork (seemingly) resulted in nothing, leaving the hero downcast and morally crushed despite being a force of nature and the star of the show.

In short, I had absolutely no problem with Ran'Jit's scene as it gave him the pep to feel like a threat, but not to an extreme level. Do bear in mind that despite his supposed strength, the reverse also applies - he was downplayed by the Crystal Exarch, was defeated by Thancred 1v1, and later slain by the WoL 1v1. This makes up for those few moments where he is represented as a respectable boss-material.

[PeppermintBrown]

"Power levels are bull****" about sums it up.

Zenos and Ran'jit beat us easily then we're able to beat them for no apparent reason other than 'we leveled up.'

I don't mind this so much in a standalone game where a rookie hero is just starting out. But by the time we met Zenos we'd been through all of ARR and HW. So it just feels really artificial that doing the same things we've been doing over multiple expansions now keeps on boosting our power to crazier levels. Soon we'll be blowing up the moon with energy blasts or something. It's handled lazily and our losses to them never carry any real narrative weight. Not to mention the fights themselves are easy and boring with pre scripted 'you lose' moments rather than making it feel like we're struggling to keep up.

In short, I'm not a fan of how FFXIV impelments the 'unwinnable boss fight.' For a better example look at the final boss of chapter 3 in Final Fantasy Type 0 where you're just trying not to get one shot.

[RopeDrink]

Zenos and Ran'jit beat us easily then we're able to beat them for no apparent reason other than 'we leveled up.'

It's all well and good investing in the "Yeah, but I'm the WoL, the strongest peep in the land", but you have to account for the story. Zenos, almost entirely by himself, turned the war on Doma on its head. If someone like him can't go toe-to-toe with the WoL, who is still just a mere mortal (albeit one blessed by Light), then you will never feel threatened by anyone. Same applies to Ran'Jit. Ran'Jit is undoubtedly one of the most powerful characters on the First - a war-veteran for generations, trained in a specific art to perfection (can't recall the name - begins with B).

If characters like these can't go toe-to-toe with the WoL in your mind then you're setting yourself up to be disappointed every time a villain is introduced, seeing as you're the almighty and unstoppable WoL who can never be threatened because WoL is boss, WoL is life. We need to be stopped from time to time otherwise nobody will invest in any threat. As it stands, the vast majority of the game is a case of "We don't like throwing you at our problems, WoL, but let's throw you at our problems, because you're the key to everything and we love you, you're the bestest and strongest and most amazingest person".

[shinkin]

Ran'Jit disabled the Scion's before disabling the WoL. This only looks like a 'defeat' because, for story purposes, the duty ends at that point with the WoL remaining CC'd, but there is nothing to indicate that we were totally defeated other than the timely end to the duty. This is not the same compared to, say, Zenos invading Rhalgr's reach and quite literally cutting us down and sending us helplessly flying across the floor like a rag-doll.

This.

"B-but we got strong enough to beat Zenos!"

No we didn't. At best we stalemated someone using his body (who couldn't even use it as well as the original I might add). Even Yoshi said that beating him there was a "miracle".

WoL is unnaturally powerful but his ability is no where near as great as some people seem to think, if was actually capable of half the things people imagined s/he was s/he could have soloed the garleans on their own

[Daralii]

This.

"B-but we got strong enough to beat Zenos!"

No we didn't. At best we stalemated someone using his body (who couldn't even use it as well as the original I might add). Even Yoshi said that beating him there was a "miracle".

WoL is unnaturally powerful but his ability is no where near as great as some people seem to think, if was actually capable of half the things people imagined s/he was s/he could have soloed the garleans on their own

I'd still only consider it a Pyrrhic victory, since Elidibus could just keep reanimating the body over and over again. The WoL would tire eventually.

[RopeDrink]

This.

"B-but we got strong enough to beat Zenos!"

No we didn't. At best we stalemated someone using his body (who couldn't even use it as well as the original I might add). Even Yoshi said that beating him there was a "miracle".

WoL is unnaturally powerful but his ability is no where near as great as some people seem to think, if was actually capable of half the things people imagined s/he was s/he could have soloed the garleans on their own

Exactly. While we are indeed the star of the show, most of this content does actually involve groups of people of that same power level (even if they are not present for cutscenes). If you invest fully into this whole "I am the WoL, the unstoppable and most awesome person ever", then it's no wonder that scenes of us actually being equalled (or, shock horror, beaten) is viewed negatively. To me, those are REFRESHING moments, because 90% of the game is spent with the WoL being the answer to everything, despite merely being a blessed mortal backed by other blessed mortals. In the (half-remembered) words of Emet, "Oh you tower above your other kind, no doubt" - but we're not immortal gods.

It is also unfair to assume that just because we're the WoL, we immediately and instantaneously adapt to every single threat right there. It is why I'm not in the least bit surprised that we face Ran'Jit and find ourselves temporarily disabled. It's not like we have foresight as well as unparalleled/infinite strength. As said, we need to be put in our place from time to time or else the game constantly threatens to leave us on an unreachable pedestal - which is infinitely less enjoyable than actually selling a villain as a threat and making them feel worth our attention.

I'd still only consider it a Pyrrhic victory, since Elidibus could just keep reanimating the body over and over again. The WoL would tire eventually.

Which is what happens. Do bear in mind that we won the initial duel, but he simply rose again and would have continued to do so (seeing as we had no means on us to outright slay an Ascian). For the most part, we were defeated by the combination of Eli and the summoning.

[Riastrad]

He was just a trope. Nothing deeper than that. Of course, he took an axe to the face by the end of it (I'm a Warrior main). Good riddance I say. Lackluster does not even begin to describe him in terms of half baked backstory. Zero attempt was made to understand his power source other than "Oh no! It's some random old guy dressed in stereotypical Asian garb with a pet dragon! Now he has a scythe! So awesome and coool!"

Bottom tier design.

[Edax]

He was just a trope. Nothing deeper than that. Of course, he took an axe to the face by the end of it (I'm a Warrior main). Good riddance I say. Lackluster does not even begin to describe him in terms of half baked backstory. Zero attempt was made to understand his power source other than "Oh no! It's some random old guy dressed in stereotypical Asian garb with a pet dragon! Now he has a scythe! So awesome and coool!"

Bottom tier design.

Especially since he was on the only Far Easterner in the First. I suspect they just used an unimplemented character design from Stormblood and put it in Shadowbringers.