Customizable pronouns

[Izanagi_Fiaresu]

There's a simple, practical middle ground - the well-established "singular they".

I'm not involved in whatever community is creating these "hundreds if not thousands of genders" so I have no idea what direction that conversation is drifting in, but for seeing it in mainstream usage (news articles or such) then it's common and straightforward to use "they". We already use it, perhaps without even noticing, to refer to someone 'nonspecific', or on the Internet when we don't know the gender of the person we're referring to.

The longer and more common it is that "they" is in use, I would expect that more people might choose to use that, instead of trying to pick their own individual pronouns because right now there's no established standard for them.

I just assume everyone is a dude and call them dude or bro until corrected and then I use their preferred Pronouns.

This is the list that I was speaking of. https://genderfluidsupport.tumblr.com/gender. Hey I don't have an issue with whatever anyone wants to call themselves. They aren't hurting anyone. I just think the amount of work that it would take wouldn't be worth it. Hell think about it like this? Minority groups that are larger still don't have any representation in FFXIV. I.E PoC, Natives or w/e. So FFXIV has never really been that inclusive.

[Iscah]

I just assume everyone is a dude and call them dude or bro until corrected and then I use their preferred Pronouns.

This is the list that I was speaking of. https://genderfluidsupport.tumblr.com/gender. Hey I don't have an issue with whatever anyone wants to call themselves. They aren't hurting anyone. I just think the amount of work that it would take wouldn't be worth it. Hell think about it like this? Minority groups that are larger still don't have any representation in FFXIV. I.E PoC, Natives or w/e. So FFXIV has never really been that inclusive.

Representing specific cultures is a very different thing to genders, which are a thing that all humans have regardless of culture.

There's no reason to expect to see native Americans in Eorzea (although actually we know they're over in the New World, and are brought up in the blue mage quest), and we can set characters to have all kinds of skin colours.

In a thousand years, when archeologists are digging up bones of today's civilization, what gender do you think they're going to classify the skeletons as? If you answer anything other than "male" or "female", then you're denying reality. If you want to headcanon yourself, in game and/or out, as something else, go for it. Just don't expect, nor demand, that others pander to your imagination.

The whole point of this debate is that gender isn't as clear-cut as [male body = male gender] and [female body = female gender].

It's clearly a very real thing for people whose minds are built that way. They're not "putting it on" for fun - why would they when other people react to the concept so badly?

Even 'they/them' is supposed to refer to multiple and not an individual. It's actually grammatically incorrect to use 'they/them' as a singular. It's plural.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they

Dates to the 14th century, if Wikipedia is correct.

[Gwenorai]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they

Dates to the 14th century, if Wikipedia is correct.

It is still heavily argued to be plural. Even if it was used back in the 14th century, it can just be argued that those works were grammatically incorrect. Shakespeare does that a lot. Just because it's old doesn't mean that it's correct. Hopefully, in the future it will be adjusted so that it is widely accepted as singular, right now, it is not. You'll still get marked down for using 'they/them' as singular in papers for example.

What you posted shows a lot of arguments on how people avoid using they/them as singular, preferring to write around it than use it.

[cinnamonoreo]

It is still heavily argued to be plural. Even if it was used back in the 14th century, it can just be argued that those works were grammatically incorrect. Shakespeare does that a lot. Just because it's old doesn't mean that it's correct. Hopefully, in the future it will be adjusted so that it is widely accepted as singular, right now, it is not. You'll still get marked down for using 'they/them' as singular in papers for example.

It's very widely accepted as singular. You just rarely notice when you use it as singular until someone makes some noise about it. We naturally use singular they when referring to someone whose gender we don't know, for instance. Arguing that it's exclusively plural is fairly recent historically.

[Ceallach]

It's very widely accepted as singular. You just rarely notice when you use it as singular until someone makes some noise about it. We naturally use singular they when referring to someone whose gender we don't know, for instance. Arguing that it's exclusively plural is fairly recent historically.

I understand this argument, and it's not a logically horrible one. I'm more interested in the scientific view, which presents actual transgenderism as the result of a child's brain being incorrectly formed due to a poor balance of hormonal chemicals in the mother's womb. So for me, this would put real transgenderism into the same category as any other mental illness that one could be born with, such as Down's syndrome. It earns no hatred from me, and I disagree with this form of transgenderism carrying any stigma. However, that doesn't mean we the people should reinforce the delusion that it causes. Like any illness, it should be treated, even if that treatment is only logic and compassion.

However, this is the Internet, and most people I've encountered who say they are nonbinary, transgender, or anything to such an effect is not an example of the above, but rather someone who decided it based on a misunderstanding of things like whether personality traits are masculine or feminine. I'm not trying to be a bigot or whatever here. I'm just saying that this is a factually incorrect view, and as such should be thrown out the window faster than the idea that 2+2=chair.

Furthermore, there is no room for politics in this game. If you want to discuss politics, perhaps find a way for Limsa Lominsa to eventually ally with the kobolds and sahagin so the three of them can share their land.

[Gwenorai]

It's very widely accepted as singular. You just rarely notice when you use it as singular until someone makes some noise about it. We naturally use singular they when referring to someone whose gender we don't know, for instance. Arguing that it's exclusively plural is fairly recent historically.

Yes, it is accepted as singular in common day usage, you know, average every day. Like; 'Hey, they're over there.' compared to the 'He's over there,' even if we know the gender of a person.
It is still argued to be plural. That's just how English has evolved, and how finicky people are. The singular has only become common these days due to certain factors, the movement in gender inclusion. Where a person is better off using the neutral rather than going off appearance alone - this wasn't common back in the day. I'm talking about a decade ago. This only tended to happen when someone has a unisex name, and you didn't know how the person looked or heard their voice.

Will it change so everyone will accept this? Perhaps. But you will still get people arguing that is is plural regardless of historical use. And I would probably still get marked down if I used they/them as singular in an English examination depending on who was marking my paper in regards to proper grammar usage.

And thus a lot of news papers adjust in regards to its usage, preferring to use the name of the person and write around the usage of using specific pronouns than actually use they/them.

Again, this may change in the future where it's completely wiped out and singular use is seen as the actually grammatically correct norm. For now, it isn't. And you will still get professionals arguing about it.