Disappointment of Shoha/Feedback. Samurai Lv80 Skill.

[xxvaynxx]

[Edit] Shoha is bad just like I and others thought, not only is this skill Weak; only a 500 potency skill for 15 seconds downtime

This skill is very clunky and basically makes it to where we're only going to be using it only once or twice at full power.


If you don't know, to use this skill, you have to use meditate which is on a 60sec CD and depending how long you're in meditate it gives you stacks up to 5.

Let me explain why.

I was a samurai through out all of SB and I also Raided as a samurai in every tier.
There not many chances you can get a full tick of meditate.
You only ever get a chance to get a full 5 tick of meditate only Once or twice in a Savage Raid fight and about the same in a EX Primal.

However there are times you can get a lot of, say about two ticks of meditate but its not enough DPS to really be worth according to the skill Potency.
Its not enough Damage for how this skill works and many samurai's agree.

I'm going to give you how many times you're able to get a full amount of Meditate in Each "Alpha" Savage Fight.(From what I can remember feel free to correct)

Os9-Only once after you destroy the orb

Os10-Twice. When he jumps when Add phase starts and when he lands after the add phase. (Though I think you actually only get about 2 ticks of meditate..can't remember been awhile)

Os11-Twice,when he runs away and you have fight the T.V and when he's charging his Raid Wide Attack. (Though I think the first time you actually only get 2 or 3 ticks)

Os12 M&F- Once
Os12 Final- None

I'm going to also Add the EX Primals for the people that don't raid.(Not going to Add Susano and Lakshimi because I have no memory of that fight due to not doing it since 4.0!) And again, only Full stacks.

Shinryu- Once

Byakko- Once

Tsukuyomi- Twice (However the first one you're gonna use shota on an add ALSO, you need a PLD to use cover on you so you don't get stun by the phase change.)

Suzaku- Twice? (I do remember you can use it right before phase change however, the first one there is no target because dance phase and the second meditate comes just before she is about to appear which I can't remember if its a full 5 ticks, think its only 1 tick)

Seiryu- Twice (But you're not going to be using on a boss, because the first one is for Adds and the second time is right before a phase change which is over 30secs long and I think its only 3 ticks)

Innocence- Once

Titania- Twice

So as you can see, you're only going to be doing this skill once at most, twice at best at full power

Asking my peers in the balance discord most agree this skill is not good and want a change and also some idea's from the Forums.

What we suggest is a few things for how shoha can be used.

1.Make it a normal oGCD.
Simple, This skill is VERY visually pleasing and just want to use it as much as possible.

2.Let us gain 1 Stack off a Iaijutsu.
Very interesting Idea off a lot my peers in balance discord.

3.Gain a Stack off of a finisher combo

4.Make it be a new Finisher off Kesha, Gekko and Yukikaze.

5.Make it a finisher off just Yukikaze.

6.

if anything make it combo off of Seigan so you have some weird triggered ogcd combo chain.

7.

My personal suggestion would be decoupling Seigan from Third Eye, giving it an appropriate cooldown, and having it build stacks. If nothing else it'd make a very niche skill and what looks to be another very niche skill actually useful.

8.

Every successful use of Seigan or Merciful Eye provides a stack of some sort. We can accumulate three stacks, which have Seigan's full potency for each use or half for Merciful Eye. Upon reaching three stacks, you become Shoha Ready (think Assassinate) which not only unlocks Shoha but adds an additional 220/110 potency. To break it down...

1 Seigan/Merciful Eye = 220/110
2 Seigan/Merciful Eye = 440/220
3 Seigan/Merciful Eye = 660/330
Shoha ready puts the potency at 880/440, making that Shoha's actual potency

Potencies could still be adjusted but I feel like rewarding successful Third Eye proccing is a far better mechanic as it encourages people to actually pay attention to it whereas now Seigan as always been something of an afterthought.

9.

The skill looks amazing but the frequency that it'll be used makes me rather disappointed. My suggestion for how it can be changed is to allow Iaijutsu to give stacks of meditation make the stacks permanent and allow us to use the skill whenever same potencies listed as current Shoha.

10.

instead of meditating to get stack, we midare to get stack and the stack stay with us throughout the entire fight until we use it this way it will make Shoha more useable as a OGCD

Overall, most samurai want this skill changed. This skill is very underwhelming and we don't want this skill to push through in the final build as it currently is.

Everything else with samurai is great, they just basically built upon what makes samurai a samurai.

If you agree, Please Like this Post.

Yoshi-P and the team won't see this if we don't speak up. Share this with you fellow samurai's and heck even if you're not a samurai.
Your support is very much appreciated.

[Ragnhar]

I don't know about other people but getting that as a lvl 80 skill is super underwhelming, sure looks amazing but the trigger for the skill makes it lame

[Burningskull]

Now you all know how I felt and still feel about Tornado Kick HAHAHAHAH.

On topic tho I do think the idea is weird. You only use meditate at certain points in the fight which is mostly down time and that's only for about 1-3 ticks of Meditate. So just having a skill to use right as a boss comes back up just seems... wasteful? Pointless? I don't know. Maybe it'll be good in the game.

I'm actually more worried about not being able to "eat" Sens in between trash pulls and boss transitions / jump phases.

[Daralii]

Now you all know how I felt and still feel about Tornado Kick HAHAHAHAH.

On topic tho I do think the idea is weird. You only use meditate at certain points in the fight which is mostly down time and that's only for about 1-3 ticks of Meditate. So just having a skill to use right as a boss comes back up just seems... wasteful? Pointless? I don't know. Maybe it'll be good in the game.

I'm actually more worried about not being able to "eat" Sens in between trash pulls and boss transitions / jump phases.

It's 500 potency at max stacks. I think it's safe to assume that it won't be good in the game as it is.

[guardin]

Now you all know how I felt and still feel about Tornado Kick HAHAHAHAH.

On topic tho I do think the idea is weird. You only use meditate at certain points in the fight which is mostly down time and that's only for about 1-3 ticks of Meditate. So just having a skill to use right as a boss comes back up just seems... wasteful? Pointless? I don't know. Maybe it'll be good in the game.

I'm actually more worried about not being able to "eat" Sens in between trash pulls and boss transitions / jump phases.

TK was amazing and everyone loved their rotations. man i feel bad for SE all these useless complaint and doom and gloom threads and no one has even played them yet outside the media. Just play, wait til 5.1 get some content under your belt and give it a chance.

[xxvaynxx]

TK was amazing and everyone loved their rotations. man i feel bad for SE all these useless complaint and doom and gloom threads and no one has even played them yet outside the media. Just play, wait til 5.1 get some content under your belt and give it a chance.

This really isn't a Doom and Gloom. The rest of the stuff samurai got was great, I and some others just don't want this to be our final skill, rather how to use it.

You posted it, other people agreed with it. It's a bad idea unless you want access to Shoha sooner so you can use it more which is ?????????? given the context of this thread and your other posts in this thread.

It's also not a strawman if that is the real effect of your proposed change. Please explain to me how having access to Shoha, an ability you claim to hate, sooner at the expense of getting access to an ability you presumably like is in your best interest. Even if you literally never run a leveling dungeon again, somehow, you've still screwed yourself for 5-7 story-mandated dungeons and 2 primal fights. And your end result is... the exact same kit you would have at 80 regardless.

Why are you only focused on them? they just gave a suggestion just like everybody else. It isn't the only one, you seem to be thinking this is what everybody wants when its not, chill out. You're arguing just for the sake of it.

Look at my post again, I listed some suggestions from the Balance discord from samurai's/my own and Some from the Forums.

So far most like if it was tied to seigan in some way, which even you thought so..since its such a "meh" skill.

Also do you play samurai in anything not causal?

Not trying to offend but I just always find it shocking when people are ok with this ability.
Just from me asking around to get an idea, its normally the samurai's that don't do High level content at all tend to be ok with this skill on how it is or don't really care to push their job to the limit because they just do things like Dungeons and Eureka, unsync primals and 24man.

(Again, not trying to offend, nothing wrong with just doing relaxing/causal content)

I get samurai is a VERY accessible job so I understand a lot of people that like easier stuff love it since you can pull decent dps without trying but I really think you shouldn't be ok with this skill since even in dungeon, you'll hardly be doing this skill....unless you like...meditate right in the boss face or at odd times for no reason.

Its VERY subpar. This skill might as well not even be on the hotbar on how infrequent you're gonna be doing it on certain fight.

Were you around when Mnk got TK? you know how bad MNK's were trying to figure out a way to use it in their rotation? This is gonna be what happens to samurai if it doesn't change.
They wanted to use it because it looks awesome and its powerful but they couldn't and then come SB, Mnk's found a way to use TK finally and there was a lot of happy mnks.
(Then Shb comes along and kills the dream.)
Samurai's WANT to use this skill because its a offensive skill that has a new animation.
We only got Two New offensive skills and one of them is locked behind a dumb requirement.

[Smork]

My idea for a possible rework of Shoha would be to turn it into an amplified Shinten. Shoha would cost 100 kenki with a potency equivalency of between 4-5 Shintens. The high potency would make it a more efficient use of 100 kenki and a DPS gain over just using the 100 kenki for 4 separate Shintens. Kaiten would not be applicable to Shoha.

Since Meikyo, Ikishoten, and Tsubame-Gaeshi are all on a 1min CD, SAM seems to operate around a 1min cycle. Ideally Shoha would be on a 2min CD. This would fit very nicely into the rotation where it can be used after every other Kaeshi: Setsugekka and it would align perfectly with DNC's Saber Dance buff.

This 2min CD would create two rotation patterns that would be alternated between for the overall rotation. The first pattern would involve using Shoha in place of 4 Shintens and the second pattern would involve the use of 4 Shintens in place of Shoha.

This revision would increase SAM's burst window to even greater potential while not being a large increase to overall DPS. The large amount of burst DPS would allow SAM to become a solid candidate for receiving raid buffs. Its also an easy to understand and simple to use ability that meshes well with the rest of SAM's toolkit. I feel that this would be worthy of being a lvl 80 ability.

But then again, I'm not a theory crafter so maybe this would be completely broken?

[Arkdra]

Bunch of stuff.

I am picking on that particular suggestion because it sucks and this is the only place where our feedback might get heard and god help us if that's what they do to "fix" Shoha. Because I'm not happy with the ability either, just relieved it isn't something terrible like TCJ or Tornado Kick, which you mentioned.

Yeah, I was around for Tornado Kick and this ability isn't remotely near that bad. Shoha has obvious use cases and is always just free damage. sad times 50 potency of damage on occasion, but it's still free and if you've got the ogcd free, why not? Tornado Kick actually hurt your damage to use if you weren't smart about it, and you needed to have really tight fight knowledge to get any mileage out of it (though that's changed recently apparently). If you misuse shoha you aren't crippled for several gcd's like you are with TK. Well, unless you are misusing meditate to begin with anyway, but that's a different problem.

[Wynn_Storm]

I am picking on that particular suggestion because it sucks and this is the only place where our feedback might get heard and god help us if that's what they do to "fix" Shoha.

I can't believe you are still attacking my post. My post, the only post that suggested that. Do you have no real basis for your argument? There are plenty of people in this thread who suggested a much better solution than i did. But no, you want to keep going at me and my idea that i threw out. The one that barely anyone agreed with.

I'm starting to think you are legitimately trolling.

[Selova]

It's a great idea that has room for improvement. That being said It's still free damage that's tied to meditate, it also allows the option to use meditate more aggressively. Obviously with it's current iteration you aren't going to be getting max stacks for a 500 potency Soha unless it's a invuln. transmission phase since channeling it during a encounter with low standby phases would be a massive dps loss. Hopefully they work on improving it so its not such a niche ability.