I don't like using flourish on dancer

[HyoMinPark]

Honestly DNC're like the RDM of the physical range role and are more of a mid-range than full range. I guess that's why you get 3 stacks of your dash skill; dash in, do moves, dash out. It makes the job feel faster and busy honestly, altho the GCD kinda kills the Flourish feel to me. I'd rather Flourish made your procs have the same GCD as your step motions during it's duration, kinda like how Rapid Fire worked on old MCH.

A 1s GCD for the procs would be awful, because a DNC's Flourished procs also grant Feathers. You need to be able to weave a feather between the procs if you hit 4 to prevent overcapping; which, weaving with an 1.5s GCD on MCH was already a pain in the butt at higher latencies (and still is). I'd rather not see it introduced to another job. The 1s for steps works because you aren't able to weave anything between them - this wouldn't work in practice with Flourished skills.

[YanderePrincess]

Everyone should be close enough regardless of role that this isn't a burden. Nobody should ever be out in left field even if they can hit everything from there; that's just a basic lesson every ranged DD in this game needs to learn. Besides, you have no cast times and no channeled moves aside from Improvisation, which you only use in situations that moot this point; and you even have a teleport skill with three charges for quick position changes.

This is a good general rule of thumb, but not true 100% of the time for all ranged jobs. There are fights where it's better for BLM to be away (though still within aoe healing range, ideally) so that they won't have to move as much, and them being away from the group won't cause any issue for the group. There's also some mechanics where particularly people will want to be away from the group most, if not all, of the time (Ifrit Ex back in 2.x, as a rather old example X3).

[Dogempire]

Everyone should be close enough regardless of role that this isn't a burden. Nobody should ever be out in left field even if they can hit everything from there; that's just a basic lesson every ranged DD in this game needs to learn. Besides, you have no cast times and no channeled moves aside from Improvisation, which you only use in situations that moot this point; and you even have a teleport skill with three charges for quick position changes.

I think you're underestimating how short the range on the aoe skills is, all of the aoe skills have a 5y radius compared to a melee dps' 3y radius. That's not much of a difference.

I don't see how being say 10y away from the boss, behind your healers but still in their aoe heal range is a bad thing. If I wanted to stay in melee range all the time I'd go with I dunno, DRG?

[Dogempire]

Um . . . you literally just called them abysmal potencies not worth using over your normal combo, that you only use them to get procs. That's not true, though. Using those two WS literally is a potency increase and thus a dps increase, even if you get no procs out of them. They're absolutely worth it, and you're a physical ranged dps. We have the most mobility in the game, and have no reason not to be moving to do something as we lose nothing from moving.

Ohhh I see, I misworded what I was saying there.

What I meant to say is that for the near melee range (5y compared to a melee dps having a 3y range) the skills are only marginally better, you only get about 50 potency and the proc chance, and in exchange you have to move super close because the skills are easy to miss unless you're so close

[YanderePrincess]

Ohhh I see, I misworded what I was saying there.

What I meant to say is that for the near melee range (5y compared to a melee dps having a 3y range) the skills are only marginally better, you only get about 50 potency and the proc chance, and in exchange you have to move super close because the skills are easy to miss unless you're so close

I dunno. I mean, there's times I find myself having to let them drop because I simply won't be in range, but I tend to be moving a lot as Dancer anyway, and extra DPS is always of appeal to me. I'll also use them first if I know an aoe is coming that's gonna push me away from the boss, as well as know I won't have steps to hinder me getting off all my flourishes. I will admit I wouldn't mind a little more range on them. I've never understood why the primary AoEs on all of the physical ranged DPS have always been such short range abilities, though at least we get PBAoEs instead of short range cone aoes like Bard and MCH get.

[YanderePrincess]

I think you're underestimating how short the range on the aoe skills is, all of the aoe skills have a 5y radius compared to a melee dps' 3y radius. That's not much of a difference.

I don't see how being say 10y away from the boss, behind your healers but still in their aoe heal range is a bad thing. If I wanted to stay in melee range all the time I'd go with I dunno, DRG?

Well, Rongway is referring to how on a lot of bosses (most commonly in savage or extreme content), the ideal is to have everyone stacked on the boss's tail except for the MT, so that various mechanics can be more easily dodged because they're clumped instead of spread out. This first started with things like Titan HM where being stacked like this made it much easier to dodge Weights of the Land because that made them all be clumped up in one place. That way you didn't accidentally run into someone else's trying to get out of yours. If there's a WHM in the party, this clumping up also allows use of Cure III instead of Medica, which is more potent and more MP efficient for aoe healing, but has a massively smaller range (more akin to our current PBAoE WS ranges that you're complaining about, possibly smaller).

[Drayos]

Honestly I would have no problem going into melee range for rising windmill and bloodshower except the skills are only better than your typical 1 2 ranged combo because of the proc chance, which in itself doesn't seem rewarding. RDM has a 1200 potency finisher for the melee combo where all you get for stepping into melee range is a CHANCE to get a 150 potency ogcd which has a chance to give you a 200 potency ogcd.

Albeit I haven't leveled to 80 yet and I'll probably get used to it, but it definitely doesn't feel rewarding to get procs considering the abysmal potency

Your technical step can do over 100k damage while ur in melee range tho if that feels anymore satisfying.

RDM and dancer suffer this with procs, because the systems built around the concept of building and maximising procs they move from “moments of excitement” to they’re just there.

You have to remember these jobs are built to proc constantly. Not just occasionally around core rotation.

[HyoMinPark]

Your technical step can do over 100k damage while ur in melee range tho if that feels anymore satisfying.

RDM and dancer suffer this with procs, because the systems built around the concept of building and maximising procs they move from “moments of excitement” to they’re just there.

You have to remember these jobs are built to proc constantly. Not just occasionally around core rotation.

Well, against a single-target, your AOE procs are timed around a relatively core rotation—Flourish is every 60s; so you can wager that, every minute, you’ll have to move into melee range for them. You’ll never be using your AOE combo on a single-target to proc them outside of Flourish, and the other Flourished procs (Reverse Cascade, Fountainfall, Fan Dance III) can all be executed from range. It’s just Rising Windmill and Bloodshower where you have to move into immediate melee range during Flourish windows.

Ideally, your AOE procs should always be used when you Flourish, because they are free damage AND they have a chance to proc your Feathers. If one ends up dropping, it should be Rising Windmill, as Bloodshower is a 125 potency loss if dropped, and Rising Windmill is a 75 potency loss if dropped. Ideally, though, you should try to get all four out. The only time where one may drop is during Technical Finish windows, where Saber Dance and Standard Step/Finish may take priority over your weaker Flourished procs (Fountainfall and Reverse Cascade should never be allowed to drop).

[Videra]

I mean you're going to be standing in melee range most of the time anyway, so what's the problem, again?

[Burningskull]

I think they should make DNC's AoE weaponskills work like Saber Dance and be targeted AoEs on and around your target.