Enchanted reprise as an oGCD

[foussi]

What would you think if they turned reprise into an oGCD outta nowhere, we know tho that this will happen with a chance of 0.1 %?

Do you think red mage would benefit from it?

[SaberMaxwell]

It's an idea, I'll give it that. With no cast time it would make it viable for doing the 120s rotation, as the opportunity costs would be vastly reduced. I'd prefer to raise it's potency to 300 and leave it as a GCD; the advantage of it being an instant cast at 300 potency would be that we can use it as a mobility tool in addition to supplementing our rotation to meet a 120s loop.

[Archwizard]

... huh. Y'know I hadn't really considered that.

I mean my knee-jerk reaction was to say "no" since it's supposed to be a tool to use while moving... but since we avoid it anyway, and we already use Moulinet to dump Mana, this... might actually be preferable...

My concern would be that if it becomes an oGCD, how would we even compare its output to the melee combo... Fairly certain it would have to be nerfed even harder as an oGCD.

[Rongway]

My concern would be that if it becomes an oGCD, how would we even compare its output to the melee combo... Fairly certain it would have to be nerfed even harder as an oGCD.

If it were an oGCD, it would need to be noticeably less than (20 mana * 6.8 potency/mana), so ~100. At 136 or higher it would be optimal to spend all your mana on E.Reprise. Since it wouldn't delay further spellcasting, its value would only need to account for the mana it spends.

I'm assuming we're talking about a short enough cooldown that it could be used on demand; if it were longer then the potency could be higher.

[SaberMaxwell]

If it were an oGCD, it would need to be noticeably less than (20 mana * 6.8 potency/mana), so ~100. At 136 or higher it would be optimal to spend all your mana on E.Reprise. Since it wouldn't delay further spellcasting, its value would only need to account for the mana it spends.

I'm assuming we're talking about a short enough cooldown that it could be used on demand; if it were longer then the potency could be higher.

Any theories as to what cooldown would be good to balance it?

As an on command dump, even having a low potency would be okay although many would view it as discount Edge of Shadow.

[Rongway]

Any theories as to what cooldown would be good to balance it?

As an on command dump, even having a low potency would be okay although many would view it as discount Edge of Shadow.

If its potency were low enough below what the mana would be worth if you spent it on a melee combo instead, then it would be okay on a 1.0s cooldown. You wouldn't use it except as a mana dump prior to Manafication, and in such a case it could be used up to twice to dump the 20|20 that would be lost anyway due to Manafication.

On a longer cooldown it's harder much harder to say.

[Burningskull]

I wish Enchanted Reprise didn't exist and Reprise was just a ranged attack to begin with. That or Enchanted Reprise didn't reduce your black / whight mana since if you run out of mana using the skill when you have to move you can't really use it for it's intended purpose. While they are at it just upgrade Displacement into Engagement or remove Engagement and just decrease the distance you jump back with Displacement.

[Duskane]

either a OGCD or it gives us a dual cast

the move needs to be way more than just verscathe such a joke of a move

[Taranok]

either a OGCD or it gives us a dual cast

the move needs to be way more than just verscathe such a joke of a move

You know, if you made it dualcast and cost as much mana, or slightly less mana, as you'd get from dualcasting E.G. verthunder, it would start to be usable since it's still expensive (you're not really gaining resources) but usable (you're not really losing resources). It keeps your damage rolling but will still cost you.

I hate when people compare Scathe to Reprise.
They are drastically different.
If you absolutely can not cast as BLM, no matter what, scathe is no where near the DPS loss Reprise is.
For Scathe to be similar, it would have to actively lessen your AF/UI timer on top of the time wasted not casting.

An "actual" Verscathe should have been made. Something with a crappy 30 potency, and thats it.
Weak enough to try and land a hard cast, but something in case its absolutely impossible.

(Scathe isnt the cause of a BLMs DPS loss, but the lack of using GCDs is. In the case of Reprise, not only is it filling the GCD void like scathe, its also taking away from a resource thats too valuable. Scathes MP cost doesn't cause the same issue. (But to be fair, this might not be true anymore, as i havnt done any math on current BLM, nor looked into it.))

Just to correct you here, Scathe absolutely is a massive DPS loss. Your average fire 4 is 540 potency, Scathe is 100 with a 20% chance for 200 (so assume 120 for the sake of normalizing it). You lose 420 potency to use scathe once because you're directly competing with getting more fire 4s downrange. Even if you use it during UI, it's still delaying when you can get more fire 4s out.

In a technical sense, it's costing you 1 GCD worth of average class potency to salvage at best 200 potency (usually 100), but costing you an extra fire 4 at worst, which would be a massive DPS loss because of how singularly strong Fire 4 actually is. Even if you factor in the loss of black/white mana from using Enchanted Reprise, it would still only be in the 300-500 potency range while still salvaging 220 potency. I don't know how much potency 10 black and 10 white mana constitutes towards the RDM burst combo, but it should be incredibly and directly comparable to Scathe in terms of overall potency loss.

[MaraD_]

You know, if you made it dualcast and cost as much mana, or slightly less mana, as you'd get from dualcasting E.G. verthunder, it would start to be usable since it's still expensive (you're not really gaining resources) but usable (you're not really losing resources). It keeps your damage rolling but will still cost you.



Just to correct you here, Scathe absolutely is a massive DPS loss. Your average fire 4 is 540 potency, Scathe is 100 with a 20% chance for 200 (so assume 120 for the sake of normalizing it). You lose 420 potency to use scathe once because you're directly competing with getting more fire 4s downrange. Even if you use it during UI, it's still delaying when you can get more fire 4s out.

In a technical sense, it's costing you 1 GCD worth of average class potency to salvage at best 200 potency (usually 100), but costing you an extra fire 4 at worst, which would be a massive DPS loss because of how singularly strong Fire 4 actually is. Even if you factor in the loss of black/white mana from using Enchanted Reprise, it would still only be in the 300-500 potency range while still salvaging 220 potency. I don't know how much potency 10 black and 10 white mana constitutes towards the RDM burst combo, but it should be incredibly and directly comparable to Scathe in terms of overall potency loss.

Im not comparing potency lost.
Im comparing "cost".
a BLM unable to land that extra fire4, due to movement, already lost the damage, regardless if they fill in the difference with scathe or not.
The secondary cost of Scathe is the MP.

If a RDM absolutely cant cast another spell, they too will lose potency for no spells cast (much less potency than a Fire4, obviously losing fire4 is drastic)
BUT if they use reprise, they lose 20 mana.
Which, in SB 1 mana is 4.5 DPS, and can go upwards of 9DPS per mana (if im remembering correctly, but i might not be)
so thats anywhere between 90-180, depending on whats the correct number.
BUT the actual value of mana has gone up, with another spell tacked onto the end of RDMs combo, since the spell also adds mana, and does more dmg than ver holy/flare in potency.
(plus some other issues)
So depending on when it lines up, it might be possible that it does 0 dps. (i forget how much dps reprise does off hand too.)
(Someone suggested it was possible to do actual negative DPS, but i couldnt get info from that person, to know if they are correct or not)

So in theory, whats the point of a skill, that doesnt do any dps at all? (IF, and a big IF, it does 0 DPS. I ve tried to do the math, but keep getting off numbers, because im not sure the best way to calculate it. someone elses number were much closer to the actual results, and so i was relying on their info for SB)

Red Mage improvements I'd like to see:

- Buff the potency of enchanted reprise so that it becomes your go-to whenever you're moving and you have no ogcd or dual cast available.

- Give corps-a-corps an additional charge so Red Mage can have a gap closer that isn't just used for their combo. The cooldown is too long to be used for anything but.

- Buff engagement to 200 potency so jumping back isn't always preferred. Let displacement be an option to quickly jump away, not something we're forced to use for maximum dps. Let it be a choice.

- Reduce all MP costs by 20% to go back to the same MP cost ratio we had in StormBlood. Except verraise, leave that as is.

Do those changes and the job would be nearly perfect imo.

I mostly hit like for the reprise.
I actually disagree with the disengage, not because i dont want it, but because RDM was designed to have a "different" skill set. Its easier to play, but does have the unique factor of being the only DPS that has to try and fit in a jump back, to maximize its DPS. Its part of its uniqueness, and its easy playstyle easily makes up for it. (plus i personally find it extremely easy to work with, but maybe im just used to it. I can tell if i have enough room or not, w/o having to test it 1st. my raid group was always saying it was so daring in tight spots, but im like, nope, imma do et!)