What about creating an ACTUAL Dark Knight?

[Nephyleem]

You know, these "high-risk high-reward" tanky jobs that sacrifices their own HP to protect themselves or deliver strong blows?
That literally steals vitality from their foes to survive?
Makes shield out of their foes' blood?
That do ACTUAL DARK STUFF.

Does is speaks to anybody?
Or is that just me? '^'

[armandojc3]

You know, these "high-risk high-reward" tanky jobs that sacrifices their own HP to protect themselves or deliver strong blows?
That literally steals vitality from their foes to survive?
Makes shield out of their foes' blood?
That do ACTUAL DARK STUFF.

Does is speaks to anybody?
Or is that just me? '^'

given how DRK works and will probably continue to work, this is most likely never going to happen. The only "DARK" move he has is livng dead but then again GNB kinda has the same thing.

[Valic]

given how DRK works and will probably continue to work, this is most likely never going to happen. The only "DARK" move he has is livng dead but then again GNB kinda has the same thing.

I'm beginning to think you haven't actually leveled GNB to know how these 2 jobs actually differ...


As for a berserk type job. I've been saying for a while now we should have them be an MP zerker, having a low amount increases your dps and unlocks skills for dealing damage but having more MP results in having mitigation based skills, support, and utility for the group. Just give us a ton of MP heavy skills, MP regen skills, and base their effects around what they provide, make it so the lower we are the more we lose yourself in dps while the higher, the more conscious of saving people we are. At least then it can still maintain being a tank.

[armandojc3]

I'm beginning to think you haven't actually leveled GNB to know how these 2 jobs actually differ...

Superbolide sacrifices all your health to make you invincible for a while. Is that not what we are discussing here?. Dark Knight like moves?.

[MagiusNecros]

Superbolide sacrifices all your health to make you invincible for a while. Is that not what we are discussing here?. Dark Knight like moves?.

Black Mage with Convert (prior to 5.0) and now Superbolide are basically HP sacrificing skills. And they seem to work fine.

And unlike LD you don't need to top the GNB off.

[Valic]

Superbolide sacrifices all your health to make you invincible for a while. Is that not what we are discussing here?. Dark Knight like moves?.

Yeah but DRK doesn't do that? Living dead activates, IF you hit 0 you go into walking dead where you can't die but if you can't be healed a total of your maximum HP, you die anyways. Your comparisons with GNB and DRK just aren't matching up so far that I've seen is all lol.

[MagiusNecros]

Yeah but DRK doesn't do that? Living dead activates, IF you hit 0 you go into walking dead where you can't die but if you can't be healed a total of your maximum HP, you die anyways. Your comparisons with GNB and DRK just aren't matching up so far that I've seen is all lol.

Problem with LD now is since HP scales exponentially it gets harder to heal through. And just drains resources or forces the WHM to keep Benediction in reserve for LD.

---------

As for the class fantasy of expending HP to beef up,your defenses or beef up your attacks I just don't think it's going to happen.

Dark Knight in name only.

[armandojc3]

Yeah but DRK doesn't do that? Living dead activates, IF you hit 0 you go into walking dead where you can't die but if you can't be healed a total of your maximum HP, you die anyways. Your comparisons with GNB and DRK just aren't matching up so far that I've seen is all lol.

Guess i was too broad when i said "kinda has the same thing". Point is both jobs have an invinicibility skill based on risking getting killed anyway when it is used.

Sure the mechanic is not exactly the same but pretty similar indeed: you activate it and if you are not healed during its duration you will die when its over. DRK is just more definitive.

In other FF games risking dying to get a boost is the whole DARK thing.

Is that more clear?, do you see the resemblance now?.

[TouchandFeel]

Superbolide sacrifices all your health to make you invincible for a while. Is that not what we are discussing here?. Dark Knight like moves?.

That's not really how Superbolide compares to other invulns, nor how the ability should be used or looked at.

Basically Superbolide's "go to 1hp" aspect is a simplified and forced incarnation of the "can't go below 1hp/activates at 1hp" aspects of Living Dead and Holmgang. For either of those abilities, if you never hit 1hp and are therefore saved from dying, the abilities basically did nothing and were wasted with Living Dead being more explicit in this since Walking Dead is not activated at all. The time when all 3 of these invulns actively begin mitigating damage is when you hit 1hp.
Superbolide then gets the extra benefit of providing extra mitigation after hitting 1hp because it grants immunity to damage, therefore completely mitigating any additional damage, hence having the longer recast to balance out this benefit.

In instances where Superbolide is used against a tank-buster that would kill you in one hit, it functionally is the same as Living Dead and Holmgang in that you get dropped to 1hp, just with the additional damage immunity.

In instances where you are using Superbolide while taking a number of hits that will eventually kill you, such as in a really big pull or multi-hit buster, you can and should try to maximize the effectiveness of the invuln by letting your hp get knocked down as close to 1hp as you feel comfortable with and then popping Superbolide, allowing for an overall greater amount of damage to be managed, similar to how you would use Holmgang in such a situation.

So in practice, you are not really "sacrificing" your hp anymore than WAR or DRK are when having to hit 1hp with their invulns. This negative image of the ability simply stems from many not understanding how it works in context of the other invulns and poor usage of it being unfortunately common.

As for the healing requirement and explicit death penalty on Living Dead, yes it's dumb and the ability needs to be reworked.

If you compare all the invulns side by side, they mostly make sense when weighing pros and cons minus some obvious quibbles like the aforementioned Living Dead death penalty, oh and then there is Hollowed Ground but we'll get to that.

Holmgang:
- Lowest potential duration of all the abilities
- Lowest recast of all the abilities
- Only mitigates damage at 1hp, no additional damage immunity.
- Can bind an enemy but works in virtually no instances where it matters.

Living Dead
- Duration on the higher end of the spectrum with the potential to sometimes have the longest when skillfully used in very specific situations.
- Second to lowest recast.
- Only mitigates damage at 1hp, not additional damage immunity.
- Healing requirement with a hard-line death penalty if not met.

Superbolide
- Duration in the mid range, being lower than Hallowed and often lower than Living Dead.
- Recast is the third lowest / second highest.
- Drops player to 1hp and then prevents all/most incoming damage.

Hallowed Ground
- Longest to second longest duration, depending on how and where Living Dead is being used.
- Longest recast.
- Mitigates all/most incoming damage.

So really, most are balanced out by their duration and recasts and the fact that they all rely on hitting that 1hp mark. The only things that really stand out to mess with this balance are Living Dead's healing requirement/death penalty and Hallowed Ground's straight damage immunity and ignoring the "hitting 1hp" aspect of the other invulns.
Personally I feel that they really need to do away with the forced death penalty for Living Dead by either scrapping it entirely or by allowing the DRK to cleanse themselves of the Walking Dead effect, and they also just need to bite the bullet and nerf Hallowed Ground by decreasing it's duration a decent amount to like 6s.

[Danelo]

Superbolide sacrifices all your health to make you invincible for a while. Is that not what we are discussing here?. Dark Knight like moves?.

DRK doesn't have an invincibility window to LD. You still take damage from autos, etc. -- you won't die from them until the 9 seconds pass, then you die short whm beni... Usually.