What’s looking like the meta?

[Akonyl]

But the 5.05 patch could change everything or nothing

This is probably the big thing right now. The initial release of an expansion is one of the worst times to theorycraft because things are going to be very imbalanced from the new abilities+rotations and they'll be re-tuned as soon as savage comes out if there's any wild discrepancies. I wouldn't put too much stock in BLM being so high above everyone else right now, they may still be above everyone afterwards but I don't think it'll be nearly as much, if they are.

But also, while discussing meta is fun and all, I think a lot of people worry too much about meta in savage (like PFs forcing a NIN slot, or no MCH if there's already a BRD but there's no other ranged/caster, or something). The real meta for 90% of the playerbase in savage is whatever jobs your group is competent with and enjoy enough in order to not get tired of raiding + start losing focus mid-fight.

[Cabalabob]

You do know that Diven Veil and Shake it Off work differently, not only in the sense that DV needs a healing spell to be proced, right?

I checked the english tooltips and they're not that clear on that matter as the german ones, but (unless those tooltips are wrong, I never tested it since I dont play warrior that much), the difference is as follows:

Diven Veil gives you a shield thats based on the max HP of the paladin using DV - so if the paladin has 110k HP everyone in the party will get a shield for 10% of that, so 11k.

Shake it Off on the other hand is based on the max HP of every individual target and gives them a 12% shield for their max HP (at base). That means if we have, lets say a BLM with 72k it lookes as follows:
Base Shake it Off: ~8640 shield
One CD (14%): ~10k
Two CDs (16%): 11.5k
Three CDs (18%): ~13k

Both the paladins and the BLMs HP are realistic at the current point and while its obviously not as easy to say since it always depends on individual HP, its pretty safe to say that DV is better than basic Shake it Off and maybe even than Shake it Off+one CD.

Good to note. One of those small changes in wording that makes a big difference.

But there are other things about shake it off that make it better. Applying a shield to the user for one thing and since the user is a tank it’s a pretty meaty shield. It’s also easier to plan for shake it off, when a CD is about to wear off for example you can just pop it and get a hefty party wide shield. PLD you have to wait until you’re going to be cured anyway or waste your own GCD to proc it.

Passage of arms doesnt need to be just used when boss transitions to its big attack. I use it on any stack damage mechanic if i know there is no transitions. It also applies as soon as you hit it even before wing animation finishes.

I think this is really what I take umbrage with for PLDs group mitigation, you gotta jump through hoops and use it in weird ways to make use of it without cutting into your uptime. WAR doesn’t get that, just push a button and shields all around.

[Cabalabob]

And this kind of thread is why I will never touch Savage or EX content.

Um.. why? Do you also not eat pies because of people who want to know who can eat the most pies?

[Xatsh]

My Prediction on meta parties

Tanks: Pld best dmg (by a small amount) and best survivability, (Insert anything else the rest are all extremely close honestly)
Healers: Whm and Sch
Melee: Mnk, Sam, or Drg. Sam is the highest personal dps others are high dps with some raid support.
Caster: Blm, they are just leagues above every other caster without question.
Range Dps: Mch for pure dps, maby Dnc not sure if buff are enough to make up the difference in dps.

Classes that will probably be skipped over if building a pure meta party:

RDM (OK dmg not great. Mid to mid-low tier on dmg. yes they can insta-rez but then they run out of mana and do no dmg for 10-15secs, rdm has major mana issues on long fights atm. The main issue is their buff which is very strong for melee... but does nothing for healers or other casters. That and BLM is just so much more dmg so why use a rdm)
Nin: The lol class of the expansion atm. They are just pathetic compared to literally every other dps. Raid buffs do not even come close to making up the trash dmg they are doing. They need at least a 10% dmg buff to even be considered in my opinion.
Ast: Weakest Heals and by far worst dmg of all the healers. Besides nin probably the 2nd weakest class in the game. Like Nin they have buffs, but they do not come close to making up the difference.
Smn: Honestly not bad dmg sorta middle of the road more then rdm with slightly less utility... but blm's dmg is so much higher then theirs why would you pick a smn over a blm if you were being optimal.
Brd: I might be wrong here but they seems Meh oh dmg compared to mch, and Meh on buffs compared to dnc. So yea meh.

[Vidu]

Good to note. One of those small changes in wording that makes a big difference.

But there are other things about shake it off that make it better. Applying a shield to the user for one thing and since the user is a tank it’s a pretty meaty shield. It’s also easier to plan for shake it off, when a CD is about to wear off for example you can just pop it and get a hefty party wide shield. PLD you have to wait until you’re going to be cured anyway or waste your own GCD to proc it.

You have a whole 30 seconds to proc DV and since you were talking a meta for savage we can assume well coordinated groups, maybe even with voice-chat, right? With that DV becomes as easy to plan for as Shake if Off - in both cases your healers will know when you're going to use it and that they need to toss you some sort of healing-spell. I never found that difficult to plan for with my group...

In savage you'll never just pop a stronge group-mitigation like DV or Shake it Off just because you can right now - you'll always plan ahead when to use it so its actually up for raid-wide-AoEs. And considering that I find DV easier to use, because I dont have to make sure that all my cooldowns allign with the moment the shield is needed.

But maybe thats personal preference *shrug*
In the end I'd say DV give more benefit to casters, healers and ranged (because they'll get the stronger shield unless Shake it Off is used will all CDs) while Shake it Off gives the better benefit to tanks and melees since they have more personal HP.

[Sighearth]

Op seems to be kinda out of loop. PLD will be 100% meta, it has extra mitigation that other tanks doesnt, and its 2nd on dps just behind GNB so there is no discussion.
BLM,SAM and MCH can be very well meta bc the dps disparity in the respective roles ( with the exception of SAM bc monk is too close with utility). Ninja dps + trick contribution is not high right now
Healers: AST is in a super bad state, even with the cards factored in, its raid dps contribution is lower than sch that is lower than whm.

[HyoMinPark]

And this kind of thread is why I will never touch Savage or EX content.

Why? This is a fairly civilized discussion, so why the prejudiced comment? I'm genuinely curious as to why it bothers you so.

[TheRealQuah]

My prediction for Meta: It doesn't matter.
If you see any PF's locking certain spots because they want a meta comp, avoid them like the plague. Meta is for speed runners, and bad players who think that somehow having a meta comp will stop them from being incapable of doing the simplest mechanics.

Can I have some of what OP is smoking too? Their meta seems to be based on what's happening in normal Eden (?) and a drastic lack of understanding about current class balance and rDPS contribution.

Plus any speculation is completely irrelevant when several job changes are coming on Tuesday.

[Makeda]

I believe the current meta is to bring

3 Miqote
2 Au’ra
2 Viera
And a Lala

[kazzel120]

Your GNB vs DRK comparisons you have a couple things wrong with IMO.

As a person who mains DRK and GNB saying TBN isnt as good as heart of stone what? TBN is not only a damage shield but also adds in a bonus edge of shadow. You also left out Shadow wall and delerium for DRK.

I love both of these jobs but GNB is a much better off tank hands down. DRK is more main tank.

As of now though we don't know what's meta. Or how hard some tank busters are going to hit. So PLD or DRK might be the better main tanks the a GNB because on GNB I definatly notice a diference on tank busters vs DRK.

Oh and as for bolide vs living dead..... bolide is what 8 seconds? Server ticks can kill you because it dumps hp to 1 before invuln kicks in. Where are LD is a 10 second window where if within that 10 seconds you drop below 1 hp you then gain 10 seconds of not dying. Down side after those 10 seconds if not cured to full you die.