Guren and Senei

[Burningskull]

I don't feel like these do enough damage to warrant 2 min timers.

[Ryaz]

Senei is our highest damage per Kenki oGCD at 22 potency per point of Kenki vs 12 for Shinten. It's a big, hard hitting ability meant to be used during buff windows, which I think is fine as it matches up with things like Dragon Sight pretty well. Samurai is a bit undertuned overall, but I think Senei is in pretty good shape and serves it's purpose (though I do wonder why the potency was lowered to 1100 after original potency was 1200). Guren is extremely damaging on packs of enemies. You grab a whole room, which is say 12-15 mobs, you're looking at 204-255 potency per kenki which is huge.

[Burningskull]

Senei is our highest damage per Kenki oGCD at 22 potency per point of Kenki vs 12 for Shinten. It's a big, hard hitting ability meant to be used during buff windows, which I think is fine as it matches up with things like Dragon Sight pretty well. Samurai is a bit undertuned overall, but I think Senei is in pretty good shape and serves it's purpose (though I do wonder why the potency was lowered to 1100 after original potency was 1200). Guren is extremely damaging on packs of enemies. You grab a whole room, which is say 12-15 mobs, you're looking at 204-255 potency per kenki which is huge.

But on 2 min timers. I don't use Guren on packs cause I want it to be ready for the bosses and even then I only get to use Senei or Guren on a boss maybe once or twice. Where as on DNC I have a 1000 potency ability every 30s that also buffs me and a partners damage. For a job that's supposed to be all about damage, ie the SAM, Senei and Guren could at the very least be 60s abilities.

[ReiMakoto]

But on 2 min timers. I don't use Guren on packs cause I want it to be ready for the bosses and even then I only get to use Senei or Guren on a boss maybe once or twice. Where as on DNC I have a 1000 potency ability every 30s that also buffs me and a partners damage. For a job that's supposed to be all about damage, ie the SAM, Senei and Guren could at the very least be 60s abilities.

This is bad practice in dungeons, youll save more time in the long run using guren on trash than saving it for bosses as the return on potency is way way higher

[Myon88]

If you use guren on a pack and hit 2 targets with it, you basically got 850x2 potency out of its 2 minute cooldown, instead of the single hit you would have got on the boss. If you think about it, that's kinda like getting to use it twice, so there's your '60s cooldown ability'.

And why stop there? If you hit 4 targets with it, it basically has a '30s cooldown', hit 8 targets and you get so much bang for your buck it's like it has a 15s cooldown. Finding more targets to abuse aoe skills is the best way to make use of them, you're basically cheating the game into letting you 'use' them multiple times at once.

[Ryaz]

But on 2 min timers. I don't use Guren on packs cause I want it to be ready for the bosses and even then I only get to use Senei or Guren on a boss maybe once or twice. Where as on DNC I have a 1000 potency ability every 30s that also buffs me and a partners damage. For a job that's supposed to be all about damage, ie the SAM, Senei and Guren could at the very least be 60s abilities.

DNC is a completely different class with a different tool set. Yes, they have a big hit AoE every 30 seconds, but the dps of the overall class is very low. Comparing one ability each does not give a good overall picture of the class.

Samurai not only have Guren, they have their base combo of Fuga > Mangetsu > Fuga > Oka > Goken. This can be buffed by using Midare to ignore Fuga for three attacks every minute, increasing dps versus packs, and in between all that you can spam Kyuten like crazy, especially with Ikishoten up.

It's not about the one ability. It's about how it it pairs with the overall class package and where it fits into the rotation . A very hard hitting two minute cooldown to pair with buffs is fine because the rest of SAM's package has plenty to do during that downtime in between.

Would I complain if they lowered both to a 1 min cooldown, especially considering Sam needs a small buff? Nope. But it's not something that is really necessary. It's really just a different button to press every two minutes outside of Shinten.

[Cabalabob]

But on 2 min timers. I don't use Guren on packs cause I want it to be ready for the bosses and even then I only get to use Senei or Guren on a boss maybe once or twice. Where as on DNC I have a 1000 potency ability every 30s that also buffs me and a partners damage. For a job that's supposed to be all about damage, ie the SAM, Senei and Guren could at the very least be 60s abilities.

As others have said, you’d get more potency out of Guren on trash than using senei on a boss, the “trash doesn’t matter” mentality is really bad for anything other than DoTs, if you’re getting the full potency out of the attack then you’re shaving as much time off the run no matter where you use it.

You also can’t look at a job based on one move in its kit. DNC has a 1000 potency attack that takes it longer than a GCD to use? Well SAM has an 800 potency weaponskill that it can buff with kaiten up to 1200 potency, then use senei doing 2300 potency total within 1 GCD. See how you can’t just frame your argument around one move? Look at the job as a whole.

[Kabooa]

There's no reason the two should share cooldowns with how long the cooldown is and the relative small difference in potency between the two.

Either boost Senei to 1800 or reduce its burden on the shared cooldown to 60s.

[Remus]

I remember when Senei was 1250 (if i remember right?) in the media build.