Crossover events and breaking immersion

[Alleo]

I’ve been playing since 1.0 beta, am a super big lore nerd and have both of the books, and think that anyone complaining about aesthetics or crossovers needs to get over themselves.

Or people simply have different opinions and dont need to get over themselves for them. I like lore and story of games. And yet I for example always turned a "blind eye" on strange glamour or a one time limited event. For me they have overdone it with the nier raid. Its not just glamour, they are inserting a whole story in the 24 man raid. Its not a small thing, its what we have for a whole expansion..and in this case its not even from the same company and from someone that can be quite "strange" in his decisions, so I wonder how this raid will end and how they will explain it.

I would love if they at least keep their main story and the two raids as unique to FF14 as possible, so that it at least has some own sort of identity. Maybe a few hints and callbacks from other FF games in there but nothing too great. Lets have creativity there and then keep all the crazy stuff for normal events, Hildibrand or things like that.

Heck if its an event I would be fine with a lot of stuff. Give us a pokemon event or a Kingdom Hearts event. But not whole raids of something from a whole other franchise.

Incorrect, they did explain it. While I am with you on it being fan service bosses, Omega traveled across stars and dimensions and has been around for eons to listen to stories of powerful wizards and entities that should've ended the world and their tale's hero. He uses them specifically to gauge how strong the WoL is and how those heroes from those dimensions defeated their "big bad guy". He literally says he collected the information off it all and bases every fight off that information.

Their explanation boils down to: Omega got some stories and fairy tales from different nations and dimension and here they are. There is no information on the bosses themselves..no background on who they are, what stories they have or more. For a game that in one hand has quite a bit of lore, they barely do much with that in raids. Nier at least had one positive part for me and that was the data logs at the end. How cool would it have been to defeat the boss and afterwards get a data log with the story in it? And here they could use some creativity and retell it but with a twist. Or being able to travel through the void arc again and read notes of the people there. (Not in the run itself because you barely have time to read)

Omega is like: I heard it from somewhere but I wont tell you the stories here have boss x from game y which will only be great if you have played the game.

Whats with all these nice get over with comments? This is a thread with the exact topic about breaking immersion. I am not here rioting and wanting SE to change this or I will unsub..I am just telling that I dislike the way they go with these raids the last two expansion. (I love crystal tower and I am a huge fan of the void arc) Its an OPINION, nothing more. You can still like Nier and anything of it quite fine.

[Theodric]

There's no need for a huge, in-depth explanation for each and every aspect of the game's story. The Omega stuff was heavy on the fan service, but it made sense within the context of the game world. The same can be said of the Return to Ivalice stuff.

Final Fantasy games have always had references and throwbacks. They don't need to all be intricately explained. It's just part of the charm. Crossover events are just an extension of that.

[Valic]

]Their explanation boils down to: Omega got some stories and fairy tales from different nations and dimension and here they are. There is no information on the bosses themselves..no background on who they are, what stories they have or more.[/B] For a game that in one hand has quite a bit of lore, they barely do much with that in raids. Nier at least had one positive part for me and that was the data logs at the end. How cool would it have been to defeat the boss and afterwards get a data log with the story in it? And here they could use some creativity and retell it but with a twist. Or being able to travel through the void arc again and read notes of the people there. (Not in the run itself because you barely have time to read)

Omega is like: I heard it from somewhere but I wont tell you the stories here have boss x from game y which will only be great if you have played the game.

What needs to be said about them? They're powerful beings from alternate dimensions that should've triumphed. He says they're mages or what not type of beings and that's that.... You don't need to know, they're simulacrums, you just know you need to defeat them to pass Omega's trials to get to Omega itself. If you wanted lore on the bosses, go play those games, otherwise they're just powerful entities from other dimensions to beat, nothing more? Yes believe it or not, it IS that simple. Personally I would've enjoyed a twist on his retelling and new designs for them all, but otherwise... They're just big bads we kill like any other dungeon, it's in our way, we need to defeat it.

There's no need for a huge, in-depth explanation for each and every aspect of the game's story. The Omega stuff was heavy on the fan service, but it made sense within the context of the game world. The same can be said of the Return to Ivalice stuff.

Final Fantasy games have always had references and throwbacks. They don't need to all be intricately explained. It's just part of the charm. Crossover events are just an extension of that.

This ^

[Alleo]

There are references and throwbacks and then you have copy pasted bosses that are just there. And as I wrote, they dont even need to explain it in a long cutscene or anything. Just have one paper afterwards that you can click on and that reads the story or that tells us some small tibids.

I mean people were like: Look at these data logs and being able to go back into the raid afterwards, that is cool! And I agree, it was cool.

Great lore makes a game even better. And for a company that somehow gives us two real life lore books about the game, does lore disussions or sees their story as one of the main aspect of their game, they are quite low on the amount of lore that you can find in dungeons, raids and the overworld. And if you already copy paste bosses from other games into a raid, then at least give us some information on them.

What needs to be said about them? They're powerful beings from alternate dimensions that should've triumphed. He says they're mages or what not type of beings and that's that.... You don't need to know, they're simulacrums, you just know you need to defeat them to pass Omega's trials to get to Omega itself. If you wanted lore on the bosses, go play those games, otherwise they're just powerful entities from other dimensions to beat, nothing more? Yes believe it or not, it IS that simple. Personally I would've enjoyed a twist on his retelling and new designs for them all, but otherwise... They're just big bads we kill like any other dungeon, it's in our way, we need to defeat it.

They are said to be partly from fairy tales, some even from Garlemald stories. It would be great for me to be able to read these stories. If you have played the games you might understand the hints with the people on the train (for example) but as someone who never played them it was just something utterly random. So having a text afterward (it does not even have to be long) that tells us a few things about these people does not only give context to the scene itself but also gives us a deeper understanding of the world and maybe different dimensions.

And the best: People that dont care about this dont need to read them. Win Win for both sides and should not be that huge of a work. (Again I dont even want cutscenes for that)

[Zeonx]

eh? who cares I play the game for nostalgic reasons I like seeing stuff from the old games brought to life in final fantasy 14, I like the cross over events because it makes it feel like they came from another world.

you know that the final fantasy world isn't the only world out there don't you? I mean think about it immersion so then the models of the game were basically copies of the final fantasy 11 MMO just updated characters removed galka tail changed a few names boom bam.

I like the cross over events it makes the game have something better to do and its fun don't be the guy who comes into the movie dome and says oh man I seen this before the girl dies in the end ruining it for everyone.

[Iscah]

I actually don't mind the "out-of-place-ness" of Omega's bosses anywhere near as much as Ivalice/NieR, because each battle is self-contained and you don't need the attached lore in the same way. Enter the battle, whatever weirdness of the setting is contained to that boss arena, return to reality at the end of it. It doesn't have to integrate into the main setting, and I can appreciate that as a way of including some bosses that people want to see, without trying to work them into the overall lore of the game.

I dislike Ivalice because it's too much of a lore dump via text rather than by playing and learning the world of a game as you go. The characters just aren't enjoyable or likeable enough from what we see of them here. It felt out of place at the time, and forcing too much of a new setting into the world rather than integrating into it and revealing new information about things established in the wider game (ie. Allag and Mhach in the previous raids). Though I suppose there's Goug, and whatever they're going to do with the Tartarus rift...

And NieR.... I've already written about this, but I dislike having a crossover as a permanent alliance raid rather than a temporary event. (Monster Hunter already did the permanent thing, of course, but there's nothing lore-shaking about that - just yet another dragon and a Hrothgar kid some kind of minor race from vaguely-elsewhere.) I don't know how heavily they're going to integrate NieR lore into the game because of this, but so far alliance raids do have further impact on the game world beyond their immediate story, and I don't like the prospect of this coming from a crossover with a non-FF game. It's not about whether the settings can be integrated, it's the principle of it - and what else they might cross over in future. (I think I'd be equally unhappy about this if it was a franchise I did like. Possibly more if I didn't like what it was doing to the other story setting as well.)

[CazzT]

eh? who cares I play the game for nostalgic reasons I like seeing stuff from the old games brought to life in final fantasy 14, I like the cross over events because it makes it feel like they came from another world.

you know that the final fantasy world isn't the only world out there don't you? I mean think about it immersion so then the models of the game were basically copies of the final fantasy 11 MMO just updated characters removed galka tail changed a few names boom bam.

I like the cross over events it makes the game have something better to do and its fun don't be the guy who comes into the movie dome and says oh man I seen this before the girl dies in the end ruining it for everyone.

Having crossovers from other FF games is one thing. Having crossovers from completely different franchises is the problem.

We have 14 worlds in FFXIV. It's acceptable to say that they developed differently than the Source did. But none of them would have developed into MHW or Nier. And that's the issue people are having with the crossovers.

[MPK]

I wanna fight Yoshi-P in game like in neir

[Avidria]

I...

I kinda agree on the text thing for Ivalice... my biggest problem with that entire raid series was the unecessarily and frankly annoyingly long lead up quests, half of which felt like filler (especially that, to be blunt, extremely stupid "go fetch me some wine" or whatever quest that was stuck in the middle for reasons I guess?). It could have been way more interesting than it was if they'd cut out half the nonsense half-exposition half-drama and just let the story tell itself.

That said, (and this is more generally at the topic) as someone who's never played any other FF game, or Nier, or Monster Hunter, or any of the other games they've done crossovers for... nothing's really seemed out of place enough to be all that jarring for me. Heck, only problems I have with the car are how weird it looks on slopes, and maybe how shiny it is. It's too clean looking. Muss it up a bit, make it a bit less long, and fix the way some races sit in it, and I'd be set. And the Yokai Watch stuff is bright and silly but like... so's the frog suit, and the pig suit, and half the other wacky impractical armor and furniture and minions, mounts, etc. etc. we've got in this game that isn't from a crossover.

I dunno. I think they're kinda neat.

[Fredco191]

I wanna fight Yoshi-P in game like in neir

The final Ultimate fight. Please look forward to it!