Crossover events and breaking immersion

[Valic]

Omega is not an Allagan creation, they (as far as we know) never went past orbit, and they never figured out time travel (that's Alexander's thing, and he came about long after Allag fell). The Allagans lost track of "bettering themselves" long before their fall when they fell into rampant hedonism and abused their technology in increasingly horrific ways. Midgardsormr had no known interactions with the Allagans at all, and they did not send Omega to track him anywhere; nor would they have to send Omega beyond the stars, since both Middy and Omega were already on Hydaelyn before the Allagan Empire ever arose. Midgardsormr never "threatened existence", he fell here as a refugee after Omega wiped out his planet.

Please rewatch the cut scenes for the Omega raid before you try to use them as a talking point.

That's what I wanted to see. Disregarding me being an idiot and forgetting the entirety of the Omega raid story... My point stands, you understand what it is and it doesn't really break immersion from the game considering how the universe works so far. All people have to do is read to understand and bam, immersion saved. Maybe I'm mixing up something to do with Ultima but I swear I thought there was something to do with Omega being something to do with Allag, maybe because I'm relating Nero in all this and the fact we found the dang control pad in Mor Dhona, I forget tbh.... Again though, considering how you laid it out, it doesn't sound very "out of this world" for this game.

You actually help my point tho. This is in XIV's lore, He is literally the plot to Sonic Battle. Where an ancient race created a being of insane power for whatever purposes that came to life to search for his own meaning to life. Literally sonic battle or any sicfi plot since the dawn of time. When you look at it that way I don't see how people complain about a car not fitting when omega is literally one of the basics of all sicfi plots accross many stories and games.. one being mega man or Sonic the hedgehog. I bring those up cause putting those two games next to XIV looks insane. But what do you know.. XIV is using the same plots as those two games did and many more before it. I'm just saying it's not that far off when you step back and see everything for what it is. It just feels like people look at XIV and think - IT'S OLD ENGLISH TIMES- when it's really not... it's not even set on earth for that to make sense. I shorten the qoute cause this forum sucks.

Disregard most of my post tbh, I'm sleepy and apparently forgot the entire plot of the damn thing... In any case, I think we are in agreement then and prolly didn't pick up on the possible sarcasm. I know people who genuinely act like Omega is this "lolwow" thing like it doesn't belong at all (though I wish it was written better). I personally don't relate the things you mention to FFXIV, but you're on point with "how can we say its immersion breaking when its like this?" type deal. Also, you can post and edit a post right after to go beyond the character post limit on these forums.... I agree they suck >_>;

[Shurrikhan]

Omega is not an Allagan creation, they (as far as we know) never went past orbit, and they never figured out time travel (that's Alexander's thing, and he came about long after Allag fell). The Allagans lost track of "bettering themselves" long before their fall when they fell into rampant hedonism and abused their technology in increasingly horrific ways. Midgardsormr had no known interactions with the Allagans at all, and they did not send Omega to track him anywhere; nor would they have to send Omega beyond the stars, since both Middy and Omega were already on Hydaelyn before the Allagan Empire ever arose. Midgardsormr never "threatened existence", he fell here as a refugee after Omega wiped out his planet.

Please rewatch the cut scenes for the Omega raid before you try to use them as a talking point.

Given how closely that ties to the star creature of XIV's launch cinematic and who takes reference from the very area ARR all begins (Carteneu Flats or however it's spelled)... that hardly makes Omega Weapon as distant from XIV's world and story as, say, the NieR crossover.

And that's not even because it's NieR or because it's got the bosses and aesthetics and characters it does, it's just because it has nearly zero explanation or fit for having ended up in the XIV world. Had we just discovered the city it out in the Light Waste in a temporal pocket caused by some antipolar reaction whatchamahavit to Cid and the CE's breaking time where it briefly shows the distant future of the First Shard after the fall of humanity, or whatever else it might take to actually make its place in XIV's story compelling, there'd be no issue.

But there wasn't. We just meet some brats, go down a mine, blow up some doors, and discover a city down there because... why? and how?... Who knows.

[monk-dps]

That's what I wanted to see. Disregarding me being an idiot and forgetting the entirety of the Omega raid story... My point stands, you understand what it is and it doesn't really break immersion from the game considering how the universe works so far. All people have to do is read to understand and bam, immersion saved. Maybe I'm mixing up something to do with Ultima but I swear I thought there was something to do with Omega being something to do with Allag, maybe because I'm relating Nero in all this and the fact we found the dang control pad in Mor Dhona, I forget tbh.... Again though, considering how you laid it out, it doesn't sound very "out of this world" for this game.




Disregard most of my post tbh, I'm sleepy and apparently forgot the entire plot of the damn thing... In any case, I think we are in agreement then and prolly didn't pick up on the possible sarcasm. I know people who genuinely act like Omega is this "lolwow" thing like it doesn't belong at all (though I wish it was written better). I personally don't relate the things you mention to FFXIV, but you're on point with "how can we say its immersion breaking when its like this?" type deal. Also, you can post and edit a post right after to go beyond the character post limit on these forums.... I agree they suck >_>;

lol yeah I think I missed the edits and stuff.. but yes we're on the same page

[purgatori]

Given how closely that ties to the star creature of XIV's launch cinematic and who takes reference from the very area ARR all begins (Carteneu Flats or however it's spelled)... that hardly makes Omega Weapon as distant from XIV's world and story as, say, the NieR crossover.

And that's not even because it's NieR or because it's got the bosses and aesthetics and characters it does, it's just because it has nearly zero explanation or fit for having ended up in the XIV world. Had we just discovered the city it out in the Light Waste in a temporal pocket caused by some antipolar reaction whatchamahavit to Cid and the CE's breaking time where it briefly shows the distant future of the First Shard after the fall of humanity, or whatever else it might take to actually make its place in XIV's story compelling, there'd be no issue.

But there wasn't. We just meet some brats, go down a mine, blow up some doors, and discover a city down there because... why? and how?... Who knows.

That's less a crossover thing than a Yoko Taro thing. New players in NieR Automata had no idea what was going on until much later in the game, and, even then, didn't really know what was going on until they were several playthroughs deep. Those of us who had come from the original NieR were even more confused. Those who came from Drakengard to the original NieR were mightily confused as well. This is the way... But some things will be explained with time.

[Valic]

Given how closely that ties to the star creature of XIV's launch cinematic and who takes reference from the very area ARR all begins (Carteneu Flats or however it's spelled)... that hardly makes Omega Weapon as distant from XIV's world and story as, say, the NieR crossover.

And that's not even because it's NieR or because it's got the bosses and aesthetics and characters it does, it's just because it has nearly zero explanation or fit for having ended up in the XIV world. Had we just discovered the city it out in the Light Waste in a temporal pocket caused by some antipolar reaction whatchamahavit to Cid and the CE's breaking time where it briefly shows the distant future of the First Shard after the fall of humanity, or whatever else it might take to actually make its place in XIV's story compelling, there'd be no issue.

But there wasn't. We just meet some brats, go down a mine, blow up some doors, and discover a city down there because... why? and how?... Who knows.

You're kinda jumping the gun a lil too though, we literally don't have the full story. In fact, what we have so far is literally "we dunno anything that's going on but we need to find out". I don't find it that hard to believe on a separate world of existence beyond our own plane that we find ancient mechanical constructs and designs hidden beneath the planet in some fashion. Heck, if we can act like the crystal tower is just there in Mor Dhona for a while until you do the raid and realize there's actually an entire society and so on in there... Who says there can't be a locked away chamber on the First that's been dormant for centuries and is awakening because- TO BE CONTINUED.

lol yeah I think I missed the edits and stuff.. but yes we're on the same page

Saw that last post, and I agree entirely. People forget FF as a series has involved both fantasy and sci-fi in a shared environment.

[File2ish]

... It just feels like people look at XIV and think - IT'S OLD ENGLISH TIMES- when it's really not... it's not even set on earth for that to make sense...

Exactly.

The post I replied to a couple pages back was saying essentially (paraphrasing) that the crossover raids break "immersion" (I honestly hate this term). They integrate them into the lore. Ivalice content isn't just FF12 and FFT, they literally made a country on Hydaelyn for it all. So rather than just "oh look Balthier and Fran made an oopsie and ended up in Eorzea", they took a lot of time to make Dalmasca/Ivalice part of the world which we may one day visit. It would have been a shame and major uproar if they did a main 24 man raid like how Lightning, Shantotto, and Noctis came for the limited time events.

Or another posted about the Regalia mount breaking immersion. I fail to understand how the car from FFXV being in this game is somehow immersion breaking when we have Magitek being the main force power the antagonistic (to us) nation of Garlemald (like Magitek Armors, the claws, the collosi, airships like the Agrius from 1.0...). We can have a giant god dragon slaying airship that took down Midgardsomr with it, but the Regalia mount is too much? Azys Lla is literally an Allagan floating prison for the Warring Triad and Ratatoskr that we break into with the help of a flying ice lady fighting an enemy magitek airship. But yeah, the Regalia is too much. Same with fat chocobos, they couldn't fly with those tiny wings, physics wouldn't allow it.

If you want to tell me that naked catfish head guy warrior over there constantly jumping and /dote-ing on people is immersion breaking next to your plate mail clad paladin when facing Nidhogg, yeah that would be. If all the 2B cosplayers are annoying you, I can get behind you on that. But some of the complaints in this thread are the least bit "immersion breaking" looking back at some of the things in the lore and story.

[purgatori]

Or another posted about the Regalia mount breaking immersion. I fail to understand how the car from FFXV being in this game is somehow immersion breaking when we have Magitek being the main force power the antagonistic (to us) nation of Garlemald (like Magitek Armors, the claws, the collosi, airships like the Agrius from 1.0...). We can have a giant god dragon slaying airship that took down Midgardsomr with it, but the Regalia mount is too much? Azys Lla is literally an Allagan floating prison for the Warring Triad and Ratatoskr that we break into with the help of a flying ice lady fighting an enemy magitek airship. But yeah, the Regalia is too much. Same with fat chocobos, they couldn't fly with those tiny wings, physics wouldn't allow it.

I assume you're referring to me, since I mentioned the Regalia? I actually never said that it broke immersion: I said that the aesthetic did not fit with the rest of the game. This is just my subjective opinion, of course, but one which I feel entitled to hold. And I certainly never said anything that could be construed as it being THE thing which is out of keeping with the rest of the game's aesthetic. There are plenty of things that fall into category, in my opinion; but I wanted to allude to the fact that my threshold for aesthetic deviation is quite low, and that is why I made mention of my often running around in artefact gear rather than more novel/unusual attire.

Your argument is, loosely speaking, sound, so I don't know why you feel the need to erect straw men like these in order to support it.

[File2ish]

I assume you're referring to me, since I mentioned the Regalia? I actually never said that it broke immersion: I said that the aesthetic did not fit with the rest of the game. This is just my subjective opinion, of course, but one which I feel entitled to hold. And I certainly never said anything that could be construed as it being THE thing which is out of keeping with the rest of the game's aesthetic. There are plenty of things that fall into category, in my opinion; but I wanted to allude to the fact that my threshold for aesthetic deviation is quite low, and that is why I made mention of my often running around in artefact gear rather than more novel/unusual attire.

Your argument is, loosely speaking, sound, so I don't know why you feel the need to erect straw men like these in order to support it.

My apologies for misrepresenting what you said. I was going off day(s) old memory and quickly writing the post. It would have been prudent of me to go back and rereading your post before ranting as I did. That is basically what it boiled down to now that I look at it again, and I'm ashamed that I even wrote it as it is.

But it is the gist of my opinions on those subjects at the very least. A frustrating night at work colored my words and led me to hastily scrap together the post just to post it. Apologies for that as well.

I'll be more on top of getting information correct in the future before hitting post. I'm usually better about it.

[Alleo]

The more permanent additions, like the aforementioned fanservice raids, with ties to past games or other franchises have been more or less changed and/or repurposed to fit into the game's lore so I'm not sure why it's breaking your immersion. We have Crystal Tower from 2.XX, which is from FF3, pulls a lot of lore from 3 and mixes it with Allagan. Eureka is from FF3 as well, and Hydaelyn's version has ties to XI as far as I can tell (i didn't do much Eureka in SB, but Absolute Virtue is in there :P).

Yes raids like the crystal tower are fine because they are made to fit into the world and do tell their own stories. Ivalice was already on the edge for me because it was imo too much retelling and not much new stuff. Omega was even worse because it was just a tournament with pure fanservice bosses that they even did not explain at all.

Nier is from a whole different franchise (and company) with its own style. IMO right now it does not fit at all. Its like bringing pokemon in this. They could try and explain to us that they are from another dimension (like most of it is..) but it still make it jarring for me.

I have no problems to callbacks like Biggs and Wedge. Or even if the primals like Garuda are from other games because they at least look different and have their own unique story in this. (Just like with chocobos and moogles) But using bosses from other games without changing them at least a bit is just bad imo.

[purgatori]

My apologies for misrepresenting what you said. I was going off day(s) old memory and quickly writing the post. It would have been prudent of me to go back and rereading your post before ranting as I did. That is basically what it boiled down to now that I look at it again, and I'm ashamed that I even wrote it as it is.

But it is the gist of my opinions on those subjects at the very least. A frustrating night at work colored my words and led me to hastily scrap together the post just to post it. Apologies for that as well.

I'll be more on top of getting information correct in the future before hitting post. I'm usually better about it.

All good. Happens to the best of us