Crossover events and breaking immersion

[Shurrikhan]

Not sure what you mean. I explicitly stated that I am not judging the nier story integration until the 3rd raid is out.

And I'm saying that makes no sense to use as a basis for whether something is objectively (or as near to that as possible) lacking in some aspect or not. People do judge parts 1 and 2 of a trilogy, and not just after the trilogy is complete. All the more so if that trilogy is added to a franchise that has no habit of great twists or open-ended openings.

I just pointed out that there is precedent on both sides for multiple dimensions and hopping between them, so the crossover doesn't contradict either worlds rules.

But there's a difference between a foreshadowed (albeit dimension-hopping) weapon crash landing somewhere and hiding a city in a hill some tenth its size. Consider it even just a matter of scale (just as one is left to wonder how all those warrior Xaela tribes can be so close to each other) or thematic lead-in (as ShB reiterates and compounds between ambiguity to conviction, but only vaguely touches over to what we see in NieR, simply because none of those connections were made obvious despite that it'd have cost nothing to make them so, only a bit more time and intelligent writing). They're simple areas which can be done well, or any degree of less well. There's no compromise to the Yoko Taro special style/ingredient/what-have-you.

Wrong, that's the point of a crossover. When the hell did FFXIV decide Neir was apart of its universe prior to ShB? Oh right, it didn't, because its a crossover lol.

Midargardsomr is not NieR, and is the only thing I mentioned as part of XIV's story, so... where is that strawman coming from?. "Even if I'd have preferred Yoko Taro work his magic on an actual XIV plotline" does not state that he already created any part of XIV story. The only connection I spitballed, no where near the post you replied to even, was the Light Waste, which likewise did not exist prior to ShB.

That's like saying the monster hunter event was bad because random palico posts a hunt poster on the board and shows up suddenly. Wrong, the whole point of a crossover is that they've never been apart of the world before until then.

...Of all the examples, you choose that one? A dragon (established species) in the Azim Steppe (an established location) presented through a hunt board (an established means) to present a fight in a near-copy of the first boss area (an established fight) and includes aldegoat charges (an established mechanic), as an example of how a crossover does not benefit from connecting itself to the game through the whatever the game already have? They clearly thought differently, even if only to save costs at the time.

[Lersayil]

And I'm saying that makes no sense to use as a basis for whether something is objectively (or as near to that as possible) lacking in some aspect or not. People do judge parts 1 and 2 of a trilogy, and not just after the trilogy is complete. All the more so if that trilogy is added to a franchise that has no habit of great twists or open-ended openings.

So your issue is that... its a different type of story telling that in your subjective opinion doesn't fit the game, because its not episodic enough? I disagree, but I won't argue with that, since its a valid oppinion to have. I don't mind at all if we only get answers in our third raid, since I view it as a single story given out in parts, not singular episodes of a trilogy.

But there's a difference between a foreshadowed (albeit dimension-hopping) weapon crash landing somewhere and hiding a city in a hill some tenth its size. Consider it even just a matter of scale (just as one is left to wonder how all those warrior Xaela tribes can be so close to each other) or thematic lead-in (as ShB reiterates and compounds between ambiguity to conviction, but only vaguely touches over to what we see in NieR, simply because none of those connections were made obvious despite that it'd have cost nothing to make them so, only a bit more time and intelligent writing). They're simple areas which can be done well, or any degree of less well. There's no compromise to the Yoko Taro special style/ingredient/what-have-you.

Sorry, but you are kind of rambling so I don't quite understand your point. All previous alliance raids were very self contained stories, with barely any foreshadowing, and (as far as I remember) only one validated in MSQ later.

We currently have no explanation or timetable about the Nier raid, when and how the factory came to be on the First, or how its connected to the Nier world. But both worlds have a history of weird dimension traveling shenanigans, so unless we get absolutely no explanation later, its fine for now.

Also, I was personally thinking of Gilgamesh, not Omega, since it wasnt confirmed (as far as I know) that he's the same Omega as its past iterations.

[Shurrikhan]

So your issue is that... its a different type of story telling that in your subjective opinion doesn't fit the game, because its not episodic enough?

No. I've not even called XIV episodic. Where is that even coming from? My preference is the opposite, if anything. Crossovers prior to NieR have all been attached linked into existing systems or plot-lines in a way that didn't feel disconnected. XIV might be the nexus for anything and everything, but at least prior attachments were all grafted on by more than a senseless modicum of "went somewhere; therefore, surprise city that can't possibly fit where it is". Monster Hunter is just one more dragon, attached to our hunt system -- basically just the DRG 70 quest fight. Ivalice is one more location in which Garlemald had committed atrocities and from which we might get new information. Omega Weapon may be a dimension-jumping weapon, but it'd been there from the start, given context as far back as in 1.x.

The other raids have not only been led up to Crystal Tower was our first real introduction to the Allagans, and makes use of the central landmark of the ARR trailer, even. The World of Darkness was our first dive into the 13th. (But surely that's never come up in multiple cutscenes even in this very expansion, multiple job quests in ARR, or as far back as 1.x MSQ and world events...?) The Mhachi raids and its dungeon counterparts gave us a further look into Eorzea's history as mentioned in 1.x content, the idea that white/holy magic isn't always righteous/good, and a reminder of the strength of the element(al)s, the fatalistic cycles of boon and ruin that run through Eorzea's history (which is again played on further in 5.x), and that tone of sublime mortality before nature from 1.x. Those aren't disparate. Episodic? Perhaps, but they do as an episode should as a part of a larger series -- they deepened XIV's own content and lore, rather than dismissing it in favor of something flashier.

Sorry, but you are kind of rambling so I don't quite understand your point.

Then let me repeat myself more plainly. There are some things that objectively improve storytelling: having likable characters, having those characters develop in a way that extends and deepens engagement, having a setting that makes sense enough to engage with it both emotionally and through prediction, continuity, etc., etc.

You've mentioned that NieR shouldn't be judged for not connecting itself well to XIV because it's NieR and not XIV, but... this is XIV. That's not to say that NieR has to be any less itself once we enter it, but it ought to at least be connected well enough. Recruiting two bomb-loving brats so we can go down a mine shaft and somehow find an entire city that, despite flight, no one's ever noticed before is not a sufficient connection. There were plenty of thematic grafts available to them, but they cheaped out. So I hope they'll do a better job in parts 2 and 3. Even then, though, making a great final part doesn't somehow make parts 1 and 2 retroactively great. So I really hope that in the future they'll take the time to connect things well from the start. That's all.

I don't mind crossovers per se. I just dislike shoddy connections.