Lahabrea, old vs new... *Spoilers*

[Jaywalker]

The REAL reason Lahabrea has shallow writing compared to Emet-Selch is back in ARR they almost certainly didn't have the Ascian lore fleshed out yet.

That wouldn't shock me lol, but I mean 1) you never know 2) I'm sort of used to media where there are multiple creators who don't always communicate or have any clear plan in mind. The FFXIV team actually has talent compared to some other people I've seen. My sense is that unlike the other medium where you kind of need to run with death of the author/throw original intent out to take the work in isolation, FFXIV team basically laid established bones in ARR that can be fleshed out retroactively. So while the Amaurot backstory stuff got established later for us as players, chronologically in-game it would have been true throughout and as long as there isn't direct contradiction it should be informing what goes on.

Kind of a process of building characters through the happy accidents that work with later lore, if that makes sense.

I wonder if he's actually gone, though? He was struck down, absorbed into an Eye of Nidhogg that was later drained to summon Shinryu who also died and then the inert Eyes were destroyed by Estinien. Could he have "survived" that? ...I honestly don't know, I'm asking. Echo can do some weird stuff.

People have mentioned he's a master body snatcher, and technically speaking if he comes back my theory is that his aether has probably been corrupted to high heaven. Aether/soul might or might not be partially consumed, but teeeeechnically speaking I think there's a decent chance he's hitched a ride with Zenos via Shinryru but is currently dormant/basically comatose from his misadventures.

If he comes back he's basically "I LIVED BITCH" incarnate.

(...why would beings that never die reproduce and have children...?)

Idk if you're referring to the kid Amaurotines in Amaurot and the Amaurotines referencing that they think you're a child? If that's the case, tbf they did sacrifice themselves periodically in creation magics and were shown as capable of dying in accidents or violent circumstances. If having kids was done sparingly to replenish numbers might make some sense.

[Kokomi]

People have mentioned he's a master body snatcher, and technically speaking if he comes back my theory is that his aether has probably been corrupted to high heaven. Aether/soul might or might not be partially consumed, but teeeeechnically speaking I think there's a decent chance he's hitched a ride with Zenos via Shinryru but is currently dormant/basically comatose from his misadventures.

If he comes back he's basically "I LIVED BITCH" incarnate.

Was wondering about this too and checked the lore book. This is from the section that summarizes the event from Heavensward:

Yet the Ascian, who had for an eternity tugged at the reins of history from the shadows, had underestimated man for the last time... the archbishop conjured a divine blade using the power of the second Eye, and summarily executed Lahabrea. Like all souls, the Ascian's was comprised of aether, upon which primals feast. So it was that Lahabrea's soul was shattered and consumed, until naught remained of his essence.

It almost seems like you could interpret it both ways. His soul was definitely shattered, but did "naught remain of his essence" only mean that he was completely consumed and could be floating around inside the primal, or was he completely merged and now gone?

Further on in the section about Ascians:

At present, there is only one known means to destroy an Ascian: entrap its soul within white auracite - a substance capable of temporarily holding aether - and then shatter the stone with a blade of concentrated life energy.

This is what happened to Nabriales and Igeyorhm, but not Laha. Here are the last lines from each of their bios:

Nabriales was trapped within a piece of white auracite, and erased from existence through Moenbryda's brave sacrifice.

The pair [Laha + Igeyorhm after they combine into Ascian Prime, lol] could not prevail over the Warrior of Light. Thus, Igeyorhm met her doom.

However, after teaching the Archbishop of Ishgard the means to summon a primal, he was pierced by King Thordan's divine blade, and [Lahabrea's] soul consumed.

It almost seems like they're being purposefully vague in either direction about Lahabrea's fate.

[Absimiliard]

I will be highly disappointed in SE if Lahabrea does turn up alive. The man managed to go from being the near-literal incarnation of the large ham to trope to being the perfect example of Darwinism in motion in less than a single expansion. His "crowning act of stupidity", as Emet-Selch so eloquently put it, leads me believe the character really doesn't /deserve/ another chance.

[RyuDragnier]

I will be highly disappointed in SE if Lahabrea does turn up alive. The man managed to go from being the near-literal incarnation of the large ham to trope to being the perfect example of Darwinism in motion in less than a single expansion. His "crowning act of stupidity", as Emet-Selch so eloquently put it, leads me believe the character really doesn't /deserve/ another chance.

I'm betting he will show up in echo flashbacks. That way they don't get rid of him per say, and he can move the story along through things we find out about him and his research.

[TankHunter678]

I'm betting he will show up in echo flashbacks. That way they don't get rid of him per say, and he can move the story along through things we find out about him and his research.

It would be hilariously ironic if he ultimately was the one behind both the terminus (accidentally) and the creation of zodiark only to die at the hands of the very primal blueprint he came up with in an effort to bring back the "ultimate creation" the "god" he poured so much effort into designing.

[Nalien]

His "crowning act of stupidity", as Emet-Selch so eloquently put it, leads me believe the character really doesn't /deserve/ another chance.

In retrospect, that line is incredibly ironic, given Emet had plenty of chances to just completely end us, yet didn't. The opposite in fact, he straight up saved Y'shtola. He wanted us to be consumed by the Light, yet left without doing anything to the Scions, who managed to buy us enough time to come back and ultimately end him. He had us run a dungeon which ultimately brought us to where he was keeping G'raha, allowing him to help us out in the very end too... Heck, if Y'shtolas theory is correct, it's our fight against him which ultimately saved us by spending that Light in battle... All Emet needed to do was never mention Tempest and his plan to have us turn would probably have completely succeeded...

I'd honestly say that's all more of a crowning act of stupidity than anything Lahabrea did... What was his mistake? Not expecting the Pope to double cross him? I'll admit, that's stupid, but Emet practically begged us, a notorious Ascian slayer, to come kill him...

[Kokomi]

In retrospect, that line is incredibly ironic, given Emet had plenty of chances to just completely end us, yet didn't. [snip] All Emet needed to do was never mention Tempest and his plan to have us turn would probably have completely succeeded...

I'd honestly say that's all more of a crowning act of stupidity than anything Lahabrea did... What was his mistake? Not expecting the Pope to double cross him? I'll admit, that's stupid, but Emet practically begged us, a notorious Ascian slayer, to come kill him...

I don't think it was stupidity. I mean first of all the story has told us that Emet is highly competent, successfully raising up Allag and Garlemald, so it would be bad writing on their part if he suddenly started pulling Lahabreas.

Emet recognized our soul and it is hinted that we had been close with him when we were an Ancient. We also know that he is incredibly lonely and a rather sentimental individual. I think he gave us all those chances, bothered to tell us (his version) of the truth, and recreated Amaurot because he was holding onto the hope that we would side with him.

I still do find his idea of testing whether we can contain the light a bit odd, though not sure if we'll ever get an explanation for that or if they just needed it for Plot. He also has this one strange line:

Long have I awaited one who might brave a path of lesser tragedy. A resilient soul able to endure the necessary pain. I dare to hope that my wait is over. So, finish your task and slay the Lightwarden. Make proof of your usefulness. And then we may speak again.

I'm puzzled by what he meant by "path of lesser tragedy", and it isn't touched on again.

[TankHunter678]

I'm puzzled by what he meant by "path of lesser tragedy", and it isn't touched on again.

Keep in mind that he does not see the sundered as proper people. He sees the potential in you, the mostly complete fragment of the soul that he called friend and he would consider it a tragedy if he really had to kill you with his own hands. However he was willing to do it for what he perceived as the greater good. Which is part of why he asks you to remember them when you finally take him down and take the weight off of his shoulders so that he can finally rest.

One can also theorize that if your character was the 14th convocation member and was the one who summoned Hydaelyn then perhaps Emet believed that if Hydaelyn could sunder the world, perhaps she could put it back together in a way that did not require calamities at the request of her summoner.

[Kokomi]

He sees the potential in you, the mostly complete fragment of the soul that he called friend and he would consider it a tragedy if he really had to kill you with his own hands.

This explanation doesn't really match with what he says, which is that he wanted, and had been waiting for, someone to either do something he could not, or help him further his current plans.

One can also theorize that if your character was the 14th convocation member and was the one who summoned Hydaelyn then perhaps Emet believed that if Hydaelyn could sunder the world, perhaps she could put it back together in a way that did not require calamities at the request of her summoner.

The fact that Emet-Selch has never once shown an ounce of empathy for those his actions end up harming makes me question that theory.

It may end up just being some weird localization, though. I also think it's plausible that what he believes is the lesser tragedy in this situation is reviving the sacrificed Ancients, and he just wants you to help him.

[Absimiliard]

I I'm puzzled by what he meant by "path of lesser tragedy", and it isn't touched on again.

Based on context present in Shadowbringers I like to believe maybe he didn't necessarily want to bring about so much death and destruction. The calamities and rejoinings would no longer be necessary if the broken, fragmented souls could but prove themselves as having the potential to one day rise to the same heights as their forbears. His rather twisted views of extant life, while clearly very strong, did not seem quite so set in stone that he couldn't entertain other alternatives. He would never have given us the chance to prove him wrong at all if his poor viewing of humanity as a whole were immutable.

Emet-Selch seemed quite earnest in his testing of us - he wanted to believe that the potential he thought lost was still there somewhere, and it was through the WoL that he believed it might best shine through. That the WoL had once been his dear friend most likely played a part in this case. As you've said, Emet-Selch was very sentimental and lonely. No doubt he longed to have peers that weren't half-crazed and drained of so much power power like Lahabrea or completely heartless like Elidibus. We can only speculate as to what might have happened had the Warrior of Light proven strong enough to contain and control that light I grant, but if what we've seen so far in ShB so far is to be believed, it's entirely possible Emet-Selch would've proven far more amicable than people realize.