Lahabrea, old vs new... *Spoilers*

[Rannie]

Lahabrea inside of Estinien and Zenos.... just sounds so dirty.... I may have to take a bath now...

[Gula]

I'd like to see more ARR call backs for the sake of better, current writing. Gaius a shining example of low tier, typical fantasy boss turned what he is now. Looking back on ARR is like looking back to your blog entries on deviantart.

[Jaywalker]

Lahabrea inside of Estinien and Zenos.... just sounds so dirty.... I may have to take a bath now...

I mean Emet said he likes to get into as many bodies as he can. Guy gets around.

[KageTokage]

In hindsight, it's kind of remarkable how wimpy he was compared to Elidibus and Emet-Selch despite being unsundered.

You'd think he'd have realized how much of a toll all that body-hopping was taking on him, but perhaps he was just too obsessed with reviving Zodiark to care.

[AmemeAmeklin]

Lahabrea inside of Estinien and Zenos.... just sounds so dirty.... I may have to take a bath now...

Estinien doesn't bathe.

[RopeDrink]

Estinien doesn't bathe.

He bathes in blood, not soapy water.

I genuinely hope Lahabrea doesn't come back. It would add more weight to the concept of us potentially causing the outright extinction of a race if we doom Elidibus down the road. They'll have a hard time keeping him at least somewhat relatable after Emet, but they'd have an even harder time justifying the return of a forgettable moustache twirler, no matter how many name-drops and background builds are done. If they do it anyway, here's hoping they can pull it off with good writing.

At the same time (and I may be a 50/50 or a minority), but I genuinely do like Zenos and Gaius. Gaius is not full-on goody-goody yet, he just has relatively good intentions from the Scion PoV (which can change on a dime once the Empire is reduced to rubble thanks to Zenos). As for Zenos, I'd be more afraid of him using Black Rose than Varis. I know he branded it a cowardly weapon, but he has one singular goal and would be the type of person to use it anyway if it got what he wanted (and he'd have absolutely NO care or consideration at all when it comes to using it. Tis' all for his hunt/pleasure).

[Hezzlocks]

He bathes in blood, not soapy water.

I genuinely hope Lahabrea doesn't come back. It would add more weight to the concept of us potentially causing the outright extinction of a race if we doom Elidibus down the road. They'll have a hard time keeping him at least somewhat relatable after Emet, but they'd have an even harder time justifying the return of a forgettable moustache twirler, no matter how many name-drops and background builds are done. If they do it anyway, here's hoping they can pull it off with good writing.

At the same time (and I may be a 50/50 or a minority), but I genuinely do like Zenos and Gaius. Gaius is not full-on goody-goody yet, he just has relatively good intentions from the Scion PoV (which can change on a dime once the Empire is reduced to rubble thanks to Zenos). As for Zenos, I'd be more afraid of him using Black Rose than Varis. I know he branded it a cowardly weapon, but he has one singular goal and would be the type of person to use it anyway if it got what he wanted (and he'd have absolutely NO care or consideration at all when it comes to using it. Tis' all for his hunt/pleasure).

Well, look what they did for Yotsuyu. She was a pretty one dimensional villain who liked hurting people for the sake of hurting people, with just one or two small echo scenes to say why she's like that. When she "died" at Doma Castle, we weren't really interested in her at all, it was just... meh. We were way more focused on Gosetsu, and for good reason. Then the patches came rolling in and suddenly we found ourselves feeling empathetic for her and even sad when poor little Tsuyu had her horrible past catch up with her. Then there's also Gaius himself, who was a very generic angry man with super saiyan armor that got duped by the moustache-twirling villain this thread is about. Now suddenly he's been brought back and in quite an intriguing way. They COULD manage to pull off a hat trick and bring Lahabrea back and turn him into an interesting character.

As for Zenos, I don't think he'll use Black Rose. He is very much so the kind of man to prefer killing with his own hands than some impersonal poison gas. This is why he favours swords. This is why when he executes one of his mean he does so face to face with his own blade, rather than using a gun or ordering someone else to do it. The man likes getting his hands bloody. And he yearns to bloody his hands on the WoL. It's true that he gets bored of everyone else, but even then, he just tends to just walk off and leave whoever's left to their own devices.

[Daralii]

Well, look what they did for Yotsuyu. She was a pretty one dimensional villain who liked hurting people for the sake of hurting people, with just one or two small echo scenes to say why she's like that. When she "died" at Doma Castle, we weren't really interested in her at all, it was just... meh. We were way more focused on Gosetsu, and for good reason. Then the patches came rolling in and suddenly we found ourselves feeling empathetic for her and even sad when poor little Tsuyu had her horrible past catch up with her. Then there's also Gaius himself, who was a very generic angry man with super saiyan armor that got duped by the moustache-twirling villain this thread is about. Now suddenly he's been brought back and in quite an intriguing way. They COULD manage to pull off a hat trick and bring Lahabrea back and turn him into an interesting character.

As for Zenos, I don't think he'll use Black Rose. He is very much so the kind of man to prefer killing with his own hands than some impersonal poison gas. This is why he favours swords. This is why when he executes one of his mean he does so face to face with his own blade, rather than using a gun or ordering someone else to do it. The man likes getting his hands bloody. And he yearns to bloody his hands on the WoL. It's true that he gets bored of everyone else, but even then, he just tends to just walk off and leave whoever's left to their own devices.

To be fair, Gaius had been liked since 1.X both for how cool he was and because he had a well defined moral code that he believed in so fiercely he was willing to side against the Empire at least once. I would say twice, but I can't remember if Meteor was still supported when he reached out to the Path of the Twelve.

[RopeDrink]

As for Zenos, I don't think he'll use Black Rose.

Missing the point. I've already mentioned how he himself brands it a cowardly weapon and would prefer his usual means. We all know that.

My point is, given he has a very clear and set goal/target/desire, he would still be the type to utilize it if no other means of flushing his desired target presented itself - and if he did, its application would be 1000% worse compared to someone like Varis using it, because Zenos is completely inured to empathy of any kind and would just throw it out for personal use without any care. This isn't the same as saying he WILL use it, just that the Black Rose angle can still play a big part despite the fact that Zenos doesn't value it all that much -- and it'll be very, very nasty if it comes to that.

We found ourselves feeling empathetic for her

Let's not go speaking for everyone. I'm pretty sure there are plenty of people out there who didn't give a damn either way.

Then the patches came rolling in and suddenly...

For the record, this wasn't something that came out of the blue. Hints of her past, specifically the less wholesome aspects of it, were hinted way before her death, then they fleshed it out later post Doma Castle.

This is not quite the same as writing Lahabrea back into existence and slapping some more history on him in the present. As said, I hope it doesn't happen - but I also hope that, if it does, they give it ample effort and fleshing, otherwise I can't imagine many people being overly thrilled at the return of one of the more forgettable villains just for the sake of it.

[Hezzlocks]

Missing the point. I've already mentioned how he himself brands it a cowardly weapon and would prefer his usual means. We all know that.

My point is, given he has a very clear and set goal/target/desire, he would still be the type to utilize it if no other means of flushing his desired target presented itself - and if he did, its application would be 1000% worse compared to someone like Varis using it, because Zenos is completely inured to empathy of any kind and would just throw it out for personal use without any care. This isn't the same as saying he WILL use it, just that the Black Rose angle can still play a big part despite the fact that Zenos doesn't value it all that much -- and it'll be very, very nasty if it comes to that.

I can see what you're saying, but I still have doubts. He knows his mere existence is enough to get the WoL to come for him, and even if he does try a more direct method to flush the WoL out, I don't really see him sitting back deploying a deadly poison gas, but more rather just walk into the enemy where he believes the WoL is around about, kill whoever gets close, and wait expectantly for the WoL to come for him, that's more his style. Don't get me wrong, though, I do still see Black Rose playing some role in the story, it's too big to just be casually tossed aside, but I just don't think Zenos will use it.

Let's not go speaking for everyone. I'm pretty sure there are plenty of people out there who didn't give a damn either way.

Fair. Most people I've seen enjoyed the Tsuyu arc, though, and felt sad when she died.

For the record, this wasn't something that came out of the blue. Hints of her past, specifically the less wholesome aspects of it, were hinted way before her death, then they fleshed it out later post Doma Castle.

This is not quite the same as writing Lahabrea back into existence and slapping some more history on him in the present. As said, I hope it doesn't happen - but I also hope that, if it does, they give it ample effort and fleshing, otherwise I can't imagine many people being overly thrilled at the return of one of the more forgettable villains just for the sake of it.

I *did* mention that myself, actually, that there was an echo scene and a slight bit of dialogue towards the end, but at the time it was very vague and felt like throwaway reasoning for her to be the way she is, especially before the post-credits scene revealed her to still be alive. At the time when it was believed that she was dead, it just felt like they only had her there to be the B-grade side-villain to go against before tackling Zenos. She just wasn't interesting until she got fleshed out in the subsequent patches.

No, Lahabrea isn't in the same situation, but he's been brought up fairly often when talking about the Ascians, and ShB itself has begun work on fleshing out Lahabrea already. I'll certainly agree with you, though, that if he *does* come back, it needs to be properly explained, and he needs to be much more than what he was in ARR and HW. And I rather hope that they do, and that they succeed, because this new lore about the big 3 unsundered Ascians, and the spectacular fight Emet-Selch put up, it would feel like a huge waste to have the final battle against one of these three unsundered Ascians be no stronger than the sundered Ascian he fought alongside - and then having him just be eaten by Thordan / Nidhogg's Eye. Even with the revelation that Lahabrea's constant body swapping weakened him, it's just disappointing, the way he turned out.