White Mage Overflow

[Exiled_Tonberry]

2. I never said white mage was fine these past 4 years. What I will say though, is that white mage is far more overpowered right now than sch and ast ever were.

AST in HW had a 20% balance buff, heals as strong as a WHM and more personal DPS.
AST in SB still has strong utility, now also has heals STRONGER than WHM and better personal DPS.
SCH has been a permanent raid spot since HW.

To say that WHM is more overpowered than 20% balance or SCH in general is just wrong. WHM needed something they could be distinguished by. SE said it themselves that they wanted to bolster the healer identifies. They seem to have went for a high dps and no utility/ moderate DPS and low utility/high utility and low dps split. All they need to do is get all of their healing right and things will work out, but they do need to keep this identity split up and noticeable.
A lot of people say that the WHM DPS is too low, but if it was just 200-300 DPS above SCH no one would care about WHM, and if healing is aiming to be more or less similar across the board then they needed something to have for themselves (because apparently utility is off limits)

[Risvertasashi]

Since we're going in circles I'll just leave it at this:

SCH is really the OP healer. Even now.

When AST is buffed, WHM clear rate will go down, and Scholars will hold the pole position yet again. Even without any buffs. If SCH is buffed on top of that, it will really go into orbit.

WHM looks strong next to a weak AST. As soon as that's fixed, people are going to remember WHM still has no raid utility among other flaws. (But, hopefully, WHM will keep high personal DPS as its niche thing).

[Billythepancake]

If SCH is buffed on top of that, it will really go into orbit.

Nobody is asking for a scholar buff, just for it to be engaging, because there's nothing engaging about spamming broil and occasionally stopping to use an oGCD to heal.

[Cyrocco]

AST in HW had a 20% balance buff

I'll admit a sizable part of me really wants this back, but at the same time it speaks volumes that no one complained when it was removed.

[aiqa]

Regarding chain, I posted this a while back...

According to stone sea sky hp values, whm is expected to do around 1.2k more than sch is. Now in 8 man content, if you have a group of skilled players who are able to both use raid buffs well and play their classes to their full potential, you'll rarely exceed 75k raidwide dps. Chain stratagem is 10% crit buff for 15 seconds, with a 120 second cooldown. Essentially it's a 5% damage buff with 12.5% uptime. This raid buff would provide 469 dps if raid damage is constant throughout the encounter. Now this isn't quite true; classes have burst phases to account for, so we can assume that this buff is slighly more potent that 469 dps in a high-end group. In your average pug, I can guarantee you that it is worth far less than 469 dps. But the dps difference between whm and sch is nearly triple this.

In EX Trails average dps difference between WHM and SCH is far closer to double than tripple 469, and in the Eden raid it's fairly close to 469.
This already was predicted, the more healing and movement needed the better SCH is going to do.

[Lethros]

Let me give broil III the appearance and sound of an older broil and I will play scholar. I was hesitant to play it at all because of tank sustain concerns and a shift in ways to handle sustaining a tank. After getting white mage to 80 and enjoying it a lot, particularly with the experience of the afflatus actions, I did play some scholar past 70. I was okay with it for a couple levels, enjoyed it even, then broil III comes along at 72... Late 73 I completely abandoned the job because I can't bear using the spell.

White mage was my first job when I started in Heavensward, but as soon as I started leveling scholar I enjoyed it so much it was the job I played most by far. From later Heavensward up until Shadowbringers.

[Mortex]

I mean they did dumb down astro and sch and the didn’t change white mage massively, just some instant heal abilities so you can do something while moving but on paper the same concept with just improvements too the play style that whm has since ages

[Miste]

AST in HW had a 20% balance buff, heals as strong as a WHM and more personal DPS.

20% balance and heals as strong as WHM happened around half way through HW. AST at HW launch and for the entire first tier of savage (half a year) was worse than it is now and was utter trash until fixes, they were massively undertuned, kind of like now except worse. Funny how the healer balance keeps going around making the same mistakes over and over.

Also, I'm not sure where you are getting that AST had more personal DPS than WHM in HW. Did you not play both maybe? Because I did...even after AST fixes WHM personal DPS was still higher, they even still had the damage on Fluid Aura in HW and Presence of Mind was still great for damage burst, while AST had nothing to compare to that since Lightspeed in HW had a detrimental affect on it reducing your attack magic potency by 25% while it was active.

AST in SB still has strong utility, now also has heals STRONGER than WHM and better personal DPS.

AST's utility was cut in half at SB launch so they did fix that. 20% was too much and everyone knew it, it was either cut it down or raise WHM up.

AST never had stronger heals than WHM in SB? Not sure where you are getting that from. They were mostly equal, with WHM pulling ahead due to Cure III being on demand AoE healing whenever they needed, and definitely more once Plenary was fixed. WHM was the go to healer for prog due to the stronger and safer heals and buffs they had at their disposal like Thin Air.

AST Personal DPS going over WHM only happened at the last tier of savage in SB so 2/3 of the way through the expansion. WHM personal DPS was stronger than AST until the last savage tier of SB since they added the QoL of Malefic III's cast time reduction to reduce clipping.

I still don't know why they didn't buff WHM's personal damage when they added AST QoL...like it would have fixed the gap easily and left WHM as top personal damage healer, but this is SE being SE at this point.

SCH has been a permanent raid spot since HW.

This is because Noct AST sucked for all this time and not due to WHM. So honestly it is the same thing again, they need to fix Noct AST to make SCH not be permanent spot. It just never happens, and AST is overall in the trash now with not even Diurnal being worth bringing over a WHM.

WHM is pretty overpowered right now tbh, after all I've seen since playing from 1.0 until now. WHM had problems for 4 years this is true, but AST has hit rock bottom twice now.

AST was overpowered in second half of HW tho so I don't know about saying WHM is more OP now than SCH and AST ever been, but you gotta mention everything that happened and not just make it look like AST was stronger than WHM everywhere and at every time for personal DPS and HPS when they simply weren't. You are flinging around misinformation to fuel your narrative.

SE just needs to fix AST and SCH, make them fun to play too and fix the large gap between AST and WHM that is like a huge chasm now.

WHM I am happy they are in a good spot, they deserve to be fun to play and good, but the goal was all healers to be like that and it didn't work again.

[EaMett]

Can I just point out how funny it is that the early prediction for ShB healers after the jobs showcases were that WHM was still going to be terrible compared to the sheer utility of SCH and AST?

Sorry but that wasn’t the case. The complaints around whm after the media tour were mostly: it still not having an ogcd dps skill for less clunkiness in the gameplay and the question of whether or not the pDPS was going to make up for the rDPS of the other healers.
It was also said that regardless of all that whm would be a good option during prog just like it did during SB despite it not being meta back then.

[Hezzlocks]

Sorry but that wasn’t the case. The complaints around whm after the media tour were mostly: it still not having an ogcd dps skill for less clunkiness in the gameplay and the question of whether or not the pDPS was going to make up for the rDPS of the other healers.
It was also said that regardless of all that whm would be a good option during prog just like it did during SB despite it not being meta back then.

Just saying, but according to these forums, utility = things that make other people do more damage. Since, y'know, damage is everything to the people here. So... when you say people were worried that WHM pDPS wouldn't match up with the other's rDPS... kinda the same thing