Summoner love

[SWB]

The changes to Summoner are emaculate, and I really appreciate the feeling of actually being a summoner and controlling my egis and especially when my ruin 4 procs occur instead of relying on rng.

Black mage is an 11 hit combo

Red mage is 1-2 *look at procs* 1-2 *look at procs* until your 4 hit melee combo.

Summoner is like playing DDR and really makes farming and just hitting a dummy fun and enjoyable, really allowing those who put more time into learning the job to shine! I love so much about the job and only have two quality of life changes in mind.

1. Summoners could use a travel move, like ethereal manipulation (maybe just make it a role skill) because currently they are the least mobile job in the game and it would be nice to be able to move great distances in little time (even though currently it's just as easy to time moves with ruin 4 procs)

2. Please change the tooltips for egis so we know exactly what the potencies of their attacks are in comparison to our potencies. An example is ifrits egi assaults are listed as 100 potency but they do noticeably less damage then a ruin 2 with no dots up, so just having a proper number would be useful for theory crafting, and knowing which skills to prioritize.

I'd also like titans earth shield to give ruin 4 proc, and unsure if that's a bug or working as intended!

(Edited for spelling)

[Halobump]

I second the tool tips being expanded a bit more regard egis.

Currently it states ''Uses Slipstream'' for example, but doesn't specify what that does unless you go into your actions menu and read it, just a little QoL function I'd like to see.

[SWB]

Yeah I understand them not listing them all off when no egi is summoned, but having it say what it does when each egi is summoned would definitely be a nice quality of life

[Wyti]

I'm with you really liking the new summoner.
For me they have a very solid base, a lot of QoL needs to be done to make the job really flow well, but fundamentally it is in a good position.

The 2 issues I have except the egi-assault potencies (that I also would like to see increased to the point it is not a dps loss before the ruin 4 procs unlock), would be our dots needs to be slightly longer (33s would work), because we're heavily penalized for losing our dots, and are on a strict 2min cycles, so unless everything is perfectly aligned, you'll have 1 gcd without our dots up and it feels bad for a very small thing.

The other and much bigger one is our demi-summons, While I really love the concept, they probably need to stay immobile in the position they were summoned to. Not only does our movement during the demi phase is heavily penalized because of missed wyrmwaves (or equivalent), having a giant bahamut following you like a dog feels wrong to me, I summoned bahamut to rain down devastation on my enemies not do babysitting.

[Malkbone]

I think the main issue is that you have to do this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...mns_are_going/

to just be competitive with the other jobs. The other problem is that you're penalized for actually using DWT during for it's duration after the first one. Summoner is sweet until you learn about the rotation, demi bugs/AI, etc.

[Taranok]

More or less, and if you have a mind for understanding the rotation intuitively, you would have known something was wrong immediately because of how the rotation flows between mixed densities of oGCDs, the way you basically have to watch 10 separate timers all over the place. The class is less "DDR" and more "John Madden." The real DDR rotations are Machinist, Bard, and Dancer. And every last one of them feels busy and feels good being busy, except Machinist. And Machinist's only real major problem is that anyone over a ping of about 60 will find running the rotation to feel awful through no fault of their own because you cannot single weave during heat blast.

The current summoner has more in common with the SB machinist than it does the current Machinist, which is to say there will be a select group of people who really love it because they have the unique ability to be able to understand the rotation and perform well on it, some people who are bad at it but love it anyways because they love the theme, flanked by people who want to actually play well or deal with a class that has an actually good flow to it that abandon the class en masse despite loving the class otherwise.

Factor in that the class loses a lot of damage every time it has to move, and current fights demand a lot of movement, and the rotation just more or less falls to hell.

This is also why I constantly say that Summoner is a collection of really good ideas that don't mesh well. There isn't a single thing changed in Summoner that, when taken individually, sounded like a terrible idea. But once you combine it all together you realize the rotation is an absolute mess and it demands too much attention from the player to perform optimally without having the tools to realistically perform the rotation optimally consistently well.

[SWB]

The above link is for a period of 5 minutes and it looks right to me. That's not a whole lot of buttons.

To the comment above this one; yes the job is busy and that's what makes it fun.

Bard is literally heavy shot indefinitely until proc and iron jaws once every 10 gcds.

Dancer has the same rotation as rdm and is unenjoyable in my opinion, because its 1-2 *look at procs*. 1-2 *look at procs*

Mch has really weird cooldown timers on their weapons skills with cool downs that it isn't as structured as the summoner rotation. Summoners rotation is literally a ddr song hitting everything on time and its beautifully executed, and does not play like the other 16 jobs, which is what makes it amazing.

[Taranok]

It may be for a period of 5 minutes, but what you're forgetting is that a single, tiny screwup has massive rammifications for the entire rotation. You miss a single refresh of DoTs or refresh at the wrong time, and it's like you had to move for a single second as BLM because you just threw away 180 potency. A boss jump at the wrong time will massively desync your entire rotation. Even Machinist, best described as "A well oiled machine" when it plays perfectly (and it's a busier rotation than Summoner, by far), isn't as badly desynced as SMN is from something as simple as a poorly timed boss jump.

The second Energy Drain and Trances are desynced from each other, the entire rotation just falls apart and you go back to John Madden needing to improv on the keyboard, and the class goes from a very rough stream to raging rapids, the flow is turbulent, chaotic, and all over the place. Meanwhile, because so much DPS is tied up in Drill and Air Anchor, a Machinist just sits there and lets Reassemble resync with either of those abilities. Those abilities naturally get pushed off by Overheated and can otherwise be controlled for so you don't mind as much that they're pushed off, and you just get the rotation flowing again.

Bard is kind of the same. Your cooldowns start to catch up but you don't need to fire them off as precisely outside of "Time to battle voice and dump everything," so even minor desyncs tend to not hurt as much. But A minor desync in SMN's rotation means you can't cast abilities during a period of instant casts.

This is further compounded by forced movement at any time that DB or DP is up, because even a single dropped Scarlet Flame or Wyrmwave, and you can easily drop both of them, is 150 potency thrown down the drain and you, as a player, cannot control it outside of delaying when to trance or DB, which doesn't feel good to delay because the only reason it drops these abilities is because the demi summon moves and eats it during periods of long movement. I could go on and on.

But in all reality, there is one true test. Play MCH, BRD, or DNC. At level 70, at least, and you will see what makes a busy rotation feel good and you may have a better understanding of why the hatred against Summoner is so strong right now. It is a bad rotation by busy rotation standards.

[Malkbone]

The above link is for a period of 5 minutes and it looks right to me. That's not a whole lot of buttons.

To the comment above this one; yes the job is busy and that's what makes it fun.

Bard is literally heavy shot indefinitely until proc and iron jaws once every 10 gcds.

Dancer has the same rotation as rdm and is unenjoyable in my opinion, because its 1-2 *look at procs*. 1-2 *look at procs*

Mch has really weird cooldown timers on their weapons skills with cool downs that it isn't as structured as the summoner rotation. Summoners rotation is literally a ddr song hitting everything on time and its beautifully executed, and does not play like the other 16 jobs, which is what makes it amazing.

Skipping every DWT after the first feels right to you?

[SWB]

Skipping every DWT after the first feels right to you?

If you're referring to ending DWT early to summon bahamut, then yes it does. Theres no need to run it the whole time, much like a bard switching out of armys peon early to start their next phase of their rotation and keep everything on track.