Dungeons are in dire need of redesign

[RoyalBeef]

Obviously no one is going to want to mess around in a leveling roulette for 45 mins completing puzzles,....

The main cause for many game design problems these days is people wanting to play an MMO without actually playing an MMO. Whining about this and that taking 5 minutes later. Honestly, if you log on and queue up for a roulette despite only having like 20 minutes of time, that's your personal problem ^^

[Jirah]

I don't think it would matter so long as they remained in that 15-20 min range. Obviously no one is going to want to mess around in a leveling roulette for 45 mins completing puzzles, but if it's a thoughtful enough design it shouldn't be an issue. Hell even something like what they do with treasure maps, could have doors that open up a random path so it's not the same pull every single time you run a dungeon. I'm still waiting to see 8 man dungeons where the group can split off and clear different areas before meeting up for a final boss.

There's a lot they could do honestly.

But why have they not done anything interesting with it? The 80s play the same as the 70s which plays the same as the 60s which 50s played abit different like Wanderers palace

[AnakhaSilver]

Listen, if you make it optional corridors, people will straight up ignore everything but the most optimal route. Because people don't want puzzle dungeons, which are novel the first time and then annoying after. They want to get done with the dungeon.

[zeylos]

Listen, if you make it optional corridors, people will straight up ignore everything but the most optimal route. Because people don't want puzzle dungeons, which are novel the first time and then annoying after. They want to get done with the dungeon.

Unless you make it worth it to go through those corridors by placing chests with gear, optional bosses, exp side mission like WoW etc...

FFxvi is better than BFA and all, but WOW has a much, much better dungeon design than XIV. XIV's dungeons feel like reskins of each other to me at least

[Jirah]

Listen, if you make it optional corridors, people will straight up ignore everything but the most optimal route. Because people don't want puzzle dungeons, which are novel the first time and then annoying after. They want to get done with the dungeon.

So the point of dungeons is filler? Why even play a game where the majority of its content is to “get done with it”

[Hasrat]

So the point of dungeons is filler? Why even play a game where the majority of its content is to “get done with it”

Skinner box.

Partly true. But also, the whole point of, "Ok, I enjoyed this once, maybe a few times already, now I'm just trying to grind for levels, the novelty has worn off, this is just a chore now."

Novelty is great. When it's novel. But eventually, the novelty wears off. And this is an MMORPG. Some amount of grinding is necessary, for whatever your goal. Given the option of making that grind be either a chore or a breeze, bit of a no-brainer what most would pick.

[Blanchimont]

Part of the reason why full clears are no longer a thing is because people used to farm early sections of dungeons for experience repeatedly and ignore the rest of it. To fix this, they concentrated the experience into bosses and since then, people have stopped full clearing because neither the loot nor the mobs were worth it. The Aurum Vale was subject to this and some people still do it with Doma Castle once in a while.

[Mimilu]

If I'm remembering correctly, someone asked about this during one of recent Fanfests' Q&A.
They said that, while they would like to make more interesting dungeons, dungeons are where they send new battle-design devs to learn the ropes before sending them off to other battles, like raids and trials.

[KohakuTribal]

Yeah puzzles can get annoying, but it's still possible to do things differently to breath some life into the dungeons. Qarn is a great example. It has personality! And bonus points for FFXII nostalgia. Bardam's Mettle 2nd boss is another great example. It's still a boss on the corridor chain, but far from the traditional tank-n-spank. It's fun! 2.0 dungeons seemed to have more environmental interaction boss fights that were challenging and fun. Aurum Vale and picking up the item to drop debuff stacks. Hiding behind statues to drop tethers. Interact with lanterns to stop the AOE. Load up the rockets to pummel the boss. Drag the mobs beneath the spike ball to damage and debuff. Maybe I'm wrong here, but newer stuff seems like a lot of tank-n-spank with a lot of dodge and stack mechanics. The most interesting thing I can think of off the top of my head is the tightrope part of a final boss in 5.0 stuff (don't wanna drop any spoilers).

I know some people think puzzles and boss fights with gimmicks are annoying, but I think they're more fun than "burn it all as fast as humanly possible." I'm always sad when older content becomes so easy that you can burn through every mechanic. Behemoth in CT for example. It's a joke now. New players aren't getting the full experience of that content unless they queue with ONLY other newbies. It also makes me sad for the developers who spent so much time designing the encounters. It's fine if older content gets easier to clear over time, but like.....so much so that core mechanics are skippable or ignorable altogether?

I am bummed that current dungeon mobs are just zerg and AOE. It's so boring and brainless. It'd be more interesting if there were more enemy types that had burn priority. So much so that killing that one mob in the pack is more important than AOEing the group all at once. Bees with Final Sting comes to mind, but that's pretty tired by now. Even swapping packs of mobs out for single, strong enemies would be a nice change now and then.

[CaptainLagbeard]

3-8 trash mobs- - - Boss - - - 3-8 trash mobs- - - - Boss - - - 3-8 trash mobs- - - Boss

Shadowbringers Dungeon design in a nutshell
4 Trash pulls, then a Boss, repeated 3 times. No exceptions.

Trashmobs are more damage sponges than anything, and the bosses all have pretty much just 3 attacks that they just repeat in order.