Is it even possible for the Ascians to succeed?

[Big-Isaac]

The Ascians are trying to rejoin all of the shards with the source, which would result in humanity being returned to how it was originally and Zodiark becoming whole again.

What I don't quite understand is... what about the 13th shard? Emet Selch admits that they screwed up, causing the 13th shard to turn into void.
So with one of the shards lost, is it even possible for the Ascians to reach their goal?

[TankHunter678]

Technically it is possible. If there is a darkness version of something like Eden Prime then the Oracle of Darkness could get control of it. Given that Darkness is a creation attribute then it could generate the elemental aether needed to restore the desolate empty lands. If the Ascians somehow managed to get a hold of the Oracle of Light and control Eden by extension then if needed to prevent the elements from going out of control before preparations were done then they could use Eden to stabilize the individual elements. This would result in life coming back to the 13th shard and returning it from a void state.

After that it would be pushing it in a more controlled manner then last time to a darkness aspect and then do a rejoining. This is the kind of plan someone like Elidibus is liable to use as his Emissary role puts him in a better position to go over the first part of the plan to restore the shard.

[Anonymoose]

It would require some NeW ReVeLaTiOnS, as we've always been told the void is nothing; the void is empty; the void is a hole where a shard used to be; the void is useless. If that's revealed to be not-necessarily-the-whole-story, yeah, we can probably get around it. But would even the writers want to, and thereby deprive themselves of voidsent as a convenient source of plot fuel?

Watch us kill Elidibus before it even comes up.

[TankHunter678]

It would require some NeW ReVeLaTiOnS, as we've always been told the void is nothing; the void is empty; the void is a hole where a shard used to be; the void is useless. If that's revealed to be not-necessarily-the-whole-story, yeah, we can probably get around it. But would even the writers want to, and thereby deprive themselves of voidsent as a convenient source of plot fuel?

Watch us kill Elidibus before it even comes up.

We also were told that the Flood of Light would achieve the same result on the first, that it would be reduced to a void of light. As we have come to learn even the Empty, a place that is a void of light, can be restored through the use of the systems behind the flood.

It would also make for a good expansion story to be going and restoring the ability for the 13th to sustain life for the wayward souls that arrived on the source/first from that shard.

[ObsidianFire]

We also were told that the Flood of Light would achieve the same result on the first, that it would be reduced to a void of light. As we have come to learn even the Empty, a place that is a void of light, can be restored through the use of the systems behind the flood.

It would also make for a good expansion story to be going and restoring the ability for the 13th to sustain life for the wayward souls that arrived on the source/first from that shard.

This is... very wrong... given everything that we currently know. We have known for years (since 3.4) that a Flood of Light does the opposite of a Flood of Darkness. A Flood of Darkness results in a place void of aether and filled with life. A Flood of Light results in a place void of life and filled with aether.

The Empty is not Void of Light; it is in fact filled with it. It is also filled with aether, if extremely Umbral (static) aether. The entire point of using Eden is to make the aether less Umbral (static) so that it can function as elemental aether again and support life.

Eden would not work in the Void as the Void has no aether for Eden to work with. The first thing that would have to be done to "restore" the Void/13th Shard would be to find some way to make it produce aether again naturally. Which is currently beyond anything we can do. The life in the Void gets aether not from any aether in the Void, but by stealing it from the Source. That stolen aether doesn't replenish the Void's aether stores though. It just gets hoarded by whatever life acquired it.

[TankHunter678]

-snip-

Technically it is possible. If there is a darkness version of something like Eden Prime then the Oracle of Darkness could get control of it. Given that Darkness is a creation attribute then it could generate the elemental aether needed to restore the desolate empty lands. If the Ascians somehow managed to get a hold of the Oracle of Light and control Eden by extension then if needed to prevent the elements from going out of control before preparations were done then they could use Eden to stabilize the individual elements. This would result in life coming back to the 13th shard and returning it from a void state.

After that it would be pushing it in a more controlled manner then last time to a darkness aspect and then do a rejoining. This is the kind of plan someone like Elidibus is liable to use as his Emissary role puts him in a better position to go over the first part of the plan to restore the shard.

I mentioned it in a previous post. The idea of there being a darkness equivalent to Eden that can generate aether (which would fit with the Ancient plan to cultivate life if Eden and this opposite was made by the Ancients) and Eden could be used to stabilize said aether after it is generated. Also based on the fact that the aether being locked up results in life dying out, if a place is reduced to a void of aether then life does not fill it up but dies out because it has nothing to support it. The burn being an example of this as creatures can only survive on its outermost edge.

So far the way things look is that in a Void of Darkness all elements that made up and supported life become so charged with activity that they lose all definition and merge together. Causing life to cease to exist. In a Void of Light all elements that made up and supported life lose so much activity that they become inert. Causing life to cease to exist.

Which makes the Empty a Void of Light, but since we control the system behind the Flood of Light we can fix that. Now we just need to control the system behind the Flood of Darkness so we can start fixing the 13th.

Also take note that functionally (and visually) Sin Eaters and Voidsent are similar. Both seek out what Aether they can get their hands on. It is highly likely that if a Sin Eater cannot get a semi-regular meal then they inevitably will wind up ceasing to function because they have no more active aether. Just like how a Voidsent will die if it cannot get its hands on more aether.

[Alleo]

We also were told that the Flood of Light would achieve the same result on the first, that it would be reduced to a void of light. As we have come to learn even the Empty, a place that is a void of light, can be restored through the use of the systems behind the flood.

It would also make for a good expansion story to be going and restoring the ability for the 13th to sustain life for the wayward souls that arrived on the source/first from that shard.

Well then Koji must have changed his mind because as I heard he has told us that the Void is completely devoid of aether which is the reason why the voidsents try to come over to our world to eat the aether. Did he ever tell something similar to the flood of light? Or was that speculation on our part because of how we tought Light would work?

At least ingame it is now known that Light does not work that way. It just stops the flow of aether (which will kill anything alive) but it does not destroy aether. This is the only reason why we can even try to use Eden to restore the aether to the land. Can we then just assume that a "Darkness Eden" would just simply create life? Is it confirmed that Darkness can birth the different elements? And still even Eden needed aether that already exists to do stuff. I doubt that there would be another version of him that can create the necessary amount of aether and all its element out of nothing. They would need to take it somewhere and I doubt that would do good to the place where they took it.

Heck if the Ascians that lived for thousands of years after that mistake (and were masters of creation magic) seemingly cant save it and Emet even eyes time travel as a way to change that I doubt we will just find something that works. (Of course its not fully impossible...who knows what deus ex machina Urianger can suddenly pull out..)

@OP: I too wonder if the rejoining can fully happen now. Seemingly the Ascians continue to still do them so maybe that shard is not needed? Or do they just do that to have them done and still try to find a solution for that shard along the way? (And Emet would not have tried to use time travel or capture the exarch if that shard was not needed) Maybe they would take a not complete Zodiark and hope that the amount of sacrifice and the defeat of Hydealyn would be enough to give him the power up that he can restore it himself?

At least we know for sure that one more calamity does not wake him up! But does that mean he needs all back? Or are two more calamities enough?

I don't see anything in here that would fix the Thirteenth; does anyone else?

I dont (and it could also just be her reasoning for doing all that or maybe she just simply misunderstood what the ascians said) but sadly I also have not all quests done so I cant say what the german language implies.

I do wonder if that balance even exists? Would the flood of light truly just happen even if the Ascians never had a hand in it? I really doubt that...because if that is true then the first would forever be damned to be destroyed (because balance would not suddenly be there) which is not something the game points out right now. Heck that would destroy all the work we just did. So we do see imo that the Ascians can lie.

[Jonnycbad]

If you do the 5th role quest you learn that the Ascians purposely forced the First to be flooded with light and then were going to use this to undo or nullify the flood of darkness on the 13th enough for it to be rejoined. So, it is possible in theory for the 13th flood to be reversed. Now this would save the aether but not make it hospital by any means. The 13th has been a dark void for at least 10,500 years. All beings on the 13th have likely been voidsent for that long or are born from existing voidsent. There's likely no bastion of civilization left.

[Vulcwen]

We don't know how long the void exists from the perspective of the void. The timey wimey stuff between shards means we have literally no information on how long ago anything was on the shards based on what happened on the source.
From the void it could've happened just a year ago, or it could've been a void for 50000 years already, we don't know.

[Anonymoose]

If you do the 5th role quest you learn that the Ascians purposely forced the First to be flooded with light and then were going to use this to undo or nullify the flood of darkness on the 13th enough for it to be rejoined.

Can anyone point me to a citation for the final role quest being about "fixing the void"? I didn't see that in there at all and I keep seeing people say it. I know the Ascians tried to frame the First as damned to experience a Flood of Light because the Thirteenth had already fallen to a Flood of Darkness, and therefore it was preferable to rejoin the First than allow that to happen. But where did it say anything about the damage to the Thirteenth being ameliorated in any way?