Burnt out of the healer BS

[Sloprano]

Cant edit post on phone, so adding something omitted above.

While deep in Deep Dungeons makes me do heart-pounding healing on a moments notice there are still earlier parts of it where things are not nearly as exciting. Also like dungeons scripted to a tee or I need to go around alone.

HW sch fit all of these and I was sure to either have fun doing damage, healing or both at the same time. This is what I think not just all healers, but all jobs should be strived to be varied designed around.

[Hatstand]

why not ? this is my opinion, but I don't go to forums like other scholars QQ all day they want to change and forsing devs to do so ..

We’re not forcing. We’re agitating. We’re letting the devs know that we’re not happy because I’m sure the devs will want to know when their players aren’t happy. Also, if we get our way, you’ll still be able to play the way you want to (pure healing). Just ignore the dps buttons. If you get your way we will not be able to play the way we want to. So why is it so important to you that we don’t have fun?

Also, there’s a reason that there’s no class in the game that actually uses auto attacks. They’re boring. So is a nuke spam.

[Miiu]

Dynia how are WHM and SCH suddenly balanced if you base your opinion based on pure healing? The healing requirements haven't changed. Healing currently is as low effort as it has always been outside of Coil when it was first released and savage modes when they were introduced.
Right now it is like it has always been. The more people get to know an encounter the less healing you have to do because people avoid taking dmg.
WHM and SCH right now have more tools to work with then they actually need in any of the encounters. Heck even AST has good enough healing. Though for ast to really take advantage of their tools they need to know the fight. They have a "harder" time when they don't know what is coming up for example to be able to place earthly star in advanced in a position where people will be and take a big chunk of dmg.

And people are not QQing because they want their class to be buffed. People are complaining because their jobs have fundamentally changed to a more boring version without the devs compensating in the battle designs by making healers have to make use of what they have.
Which they won't do in 80% of the content because they already think healers are not easy getting into. So making stuff harder to heal would alienate newcomers to the job. But at the same time they also won't introduce a new healing job because that definitely wouldn't make people curious to check it out.
So right now healers are as easy as they have ever been without being fun to play.
It is great that you're saying that you enjoy the job now but the things you enjoy right now are things that were always available to you. While the things other people loved: Making choices, more complexity in tools (micro managing your fairy) and being able to have a somewhat diverse playstyle are now gone.

[Toystore]

We’re not forcing. We’re agitating. We’re letting the devs know that we’re not happy because I’m sure the devs will want to know when their players aren’t happy. Also, if we get our way, you’ll still be able to play the way you want to (pure healing). Just ignore the dps buttons. If you get your way we will not be able to play the way we want to. So why is it so important to you that we don’t have fun?

Also, there’s a reason that there’s no class in the game that actually uses auto attacks. They’re boring. So is a nuke spam.

Um... no? Pure healers absolutely don't get to play their way in your system. They're defacto second-class healers. Maybe your suggestion might fool someone who doesn't understand meta, but actual non-strawmen players who like pure healing know exactly what your system entails. The added dps will always outstrip the utility of the healer without the dps. I'd rather the nerfed dps that we have now with any changes in the future going to more taxing resource management or a conversion of unspent resources to raw utility. Likewise I will agitate in the opposite direction you agitate in and I LIKE the new system. Your system in no way makes pure healers happy. Why is it important pure healers don't have fun by making them worthless in your suggestion where the dps buttons bring utility the pure healer can't compete with.

Again, there's a role for you if you like dps so much. Hint: It's red.

[Billythepancake]

Um... no? Pure healers absolutely don't get to play their way in your system. They're defacto second-class healers. Maybe your suggestion might fool someone who doesn't understand meta, but actual non-strawmen players who like pure healing know exactly what your system entails. The added dps will always outstrip the utility of the healer without the dps. I'd rather the nerfed dps that we have now with any changes in the future going to more taxing resource management or a conversion of unspent resources to raw utility. Likewise I will agitate in the opposite direction you agitate in and I LIKE the new system. Your system in no way makes pure healers happy. Why is it important pure healers don't have fun by making them worthless in your suggestion where the dps buttons bring utility the pure healer can't compete with.

Again, there's a role for you if you like dps so much. Hint: It's red.

Even in games with pure healers, healers will still dps where they can, this is not a new system. This game demands it more because there is more downtime for healers than most games. You're arguing for meta in pure healing, in meta and hardcore shenanigans they expect you to play your class optimally, so if you dont need to heal, regardless of your toolkit, you are expected to do something beneficial for the team, which is typically dps. Would I mind pure healing, honestly no, I'd be fine with it, but encounters MUST be designed around it, and pure healing, actual pure healing, is hard, and SE wants to not alienate people, so pure healing will never work as long as SE wants casual players to play this game.

And wow, the whole "play a dps if you want to dps argument", and you accuse others of strawman, jesus. We play healers because, believe it or not, we DO enjoy healing, but we also want something to do when not healing and the game does not have anything for us to do. We are advocating for dps options because those would be the easiest to implement and would make the most sense for the current game design. If there is another solution, I'm all for it, but we need something to do the other 80% of the time when healing isnt needed.

[Sloprano]

Even in games with pure healers, healers will still dps where they can, this is not a new system. This game demands it more because there is more downtime for healers than most games. You're arguing for meta in pure healing, in meta and hardcore shenanigans they expect you to play your class optimally, so if you dont need to heal, regardless of your toolkit, you are expected to do something beneficial for the team, which is typically dps. Would I mind pure healing, honestly no, I'd be fine with it, but encounters MUST be designed around it, and pure healing, actual pure healing, is hard, and SE wants to not alienate people, so pure healing will never work as long as SE wants casual players to play this game.

And wow, the whole "play a dps if you want to dps argument", and you accuse others of strawman, jesus. We play healers because, believe it or not, we DO enjoy healing, but we also want something to do when not healing and the game does not have anything for us to do. We are advocating for dps options because those would be the easiest to implement and would make the most sense for the current game design. If there is another solution, I'm all for it, but we need something to do the other 80% of the time when healing isnt needed.

Need to bring this to light until the developers sees it: We spend a lot of time under max level when leveling, questing, getting low-level roulettes, helping friends in low-level dungeons/fates. And even at max level there isn't always need for constant healing. All those moments could be spent on something gripping like managing a suite of dots at different durations, drop proceduraly larger mountains at enemies or inflict pain from the past, present and future. With how much fun I find DPS jobs today is why Scholar was such a good idea, it had it's roots in a DPS class that ensured the non-healing parts kept you busy. This is why I hope they reevaluate healer jobs like was mentioned in another thread where tanks all seemed to have been designed with doing damage first with less cooldowns to go around. Only an added suite of interesting way to deal damage while not getting in the way of being able to keep people alive will probably be a challenge that I hope the designers rise to meet.

[Hatstand]

Um... no? Pure healers absolutely don't get to play their way in your system. They're defacto second-class healers. Maybe your suggestion might fool someone who doesn't understand meta, but actual non-strawmen players who like pure healing know exactly what your system entails. The added dps will always outstrip the utility of the healer without the dps. I'd rather the nerfed dps that we have now with any changes in the future going to more taxing resource management or a conversion of unspent resources to raw utility. Likewise I will agitate in the opposite direction you agitate in and I LIKE the new system. Your system in no way makes pure healers happy. Why is it important pure healers don't have fun by making them worthless in your suggestion where the dps buttons bring utility the pure healer can't compete with.

Again, there's a role for you if you like dps so much. Hint: It's red.

The thing is, a healer will dps the same amount whether they have an interesting kit for it or not. So long as healers have any dps buttons the healers who use them will be considered more desirable than those who don't. I'm fine with there being a healer class where dps is easy, for those who don't want to pay attention to it. But as long as healers remain capable of completing solo content, the sort of healer you're looking for will never exist.

Also, this idea that SCHs should go play dps is ridiculous. A level 30 machinist has more dps abilities than level cap SCH ever did. We're not only looking for dps, or we'd have left ages ago. We're just looking for downtime that's interesting betwee the heals.

[galbsadi]

One thing to note here, that I think this really misses:

The vast majority of SCH oGCD abilities are tied to Aetherflow, which can expect typical availability of 3 stacks/min.

Under typical circumstances, that means you're looking at closer to 5 oGCD heals without blowing a major cooldown (that's three Aetherflow abilities and WD and Fey Blessing). If you blow all your cooldowns, AND have a perfect stack (i.e. start with 3 aetherflow and have aetherflow off CD before time's up AND use Dissipation AND use Seraph) you get closer to an expected 10-15 uses, of which about 8 of them will be Lustrate (which is nice, but still only 600pot) and one of them is about the same as Plenary (i.e. not that useful by itself).

If you're popping all of those cooldowns to do this, odds are something is going very wrong and you're either (a) about to wipe or (b) about to be using a lot of GCD heals and praying or (c) trying to save a DRK that the WHM could save with a single Benediction.

[Dynia]

Dynia how are WHM and SCH suddenly balanced if you base your opinion based on pure healing?

idk maybe cause im healer ? healers should heal and buff not dpsing
ff 14 is pve game but image healer with good heale and good dmg in pvp ... no1 would win 1v1 with that class expect other healer (draw here)

look on wow as example you just can't kill any healer there 1v1, you can't win any healer 1v1 there cause he outheal and out dps you ... (healer vs healer is draw)

This is why I love Deep Dungeons at 151+ and 71+ in PotD and HoH. Almost every mob hit very hard, have a ton of hp, some sort of dangerous skill and enrage. Pulling one and one mob into hallways is key. Add in roaming mobs and you need to be on your toes as a single instance of overconfidence can put you back to start.

Healing this is extremely exhilirating and Id love more like it since I cant take eyes of the tanks healthbar even for a moment. Places like this is where support skills like stun, sleep, silence, blind is not only helpful but sometimes crucial to get through. Selene was for example fantastic for a pacify/silence trap or when a second garm rounds the corner.

this post conviced me to try higher floors !! gonna lvl some class there ...

[Sloprano]

this post conviced me to try higher floors !! gonna lvl some class there ...

Hope you like it! Just need to inform you if you're 99/99 Aetherpool the lower-levels, 1-100 in PotD and 1-30, aren't often filled with heart-pounding action. 101-150 / 31-70 is a bit better, but you will still roll over the most floors. At 151+ and 71+ is where staying together and communicating will get you through. Unless you try for solo!