Golden Corral buffet or high quality dining...Which do you prefer?

[Morticous]

Darshu hit the nail on the head. Well done

[Avraym]

I'm betting that most of you are just taking a peek in here to figure out what this thread could possibly be referencing. Well, I've been beating my head against a wall since the release of this game, trying to figure out why the hell I'm the only one that seems to think there's a MAJOR problem with the battle system.

Battle is the most funamental aspect of the game, and XIV battles just don't quite cut it. The title I chose for this thread is an analogy I decided to use to describe the comparison of FFXIVs battle to, what I would consider, an ideal "battle."


XIV battle is remniscent of a buffet at Golden Corral:

~You're there for quantity, not quality.

Ideal battle, imho, should be comparable to dining at a high-class restaurant:

~You don't care how much food you eat; you just want to savor it.




Anybody know what I'm talking about? or am I not "painting a clear enough picture?"

I agree. I feel that the battle system is much better than it was, but it still a little laggy/unituitive and convoluted.

I know people that have played MMORPG's all their lives and then picked up this title and cringed at the UI, to the point where they refused to play past more than 24 hours worth of time.

I do however feel that the UI will be re-designed and improved for 2.0 (as shown in the PDF's), the Lag will disspear with a server upgrade and combat will be more interesting with the New Battle Regimens. I'm still enjoying the combos at the moment. Somehow as a pessimest i remain suprisingly optimistic. *Shrug*

[Peptaru]

A major issue I have with the leveling system is that while gaining 50 levels worth of xp you're (generic you) are never forced to LEARN YOUR G.D. JOB. I get into groups, whether pick-ups for content, or just parties to randomly go wander in a stronghold to kill time and find that the only people who play their jobs role well is the cnj/whm! I say its because you've been healing a big ol' pile of party members who all thought they could tank for 50 levels in xp parties.... so only having to cure one or two people while doin random stuff feels like a vacation.

Hate control, defense over attack on gear and blahblahblah a million things!, are things that people never get a chance to learn. They run around sayin I R LV 50! I R NA SERVER FIRST ON SOMETHIN! and still have no freakin clue how to play within a role. If the fighting to level up were more challenging (like i wish it was) I'd hope that people would have a better understanding that they, personally, are not supposed to be top-DD, best tank, A#1 mp sponge all at once.

As a side note (edit for spellin), yeah.... I do think taht 2-300k xp per hour in your 40's is too high given what you need to level. that last eight levels should not pass by as quickly as the first eight. Should it slow to a crawl? No, but it should require at least a little effort. No effort = no learning: No learning = no skill: No skill = content unfair to my job!!! q.q posts.

[Khal_Drogo]

A major issue I have with the leveling system is that while gaining 50 levels worth of xp you're (generic you) are never forced to LEARN YOUR G.D. JOB. I get into groups, whether pick-ups for content, or just parties to randomly go wander in a stronghold to kill time and find that the only people who play their jobs role well is the cnj/whm! I say its because you've been healing a big ol' pile of party members who all thought they could tank for 50 levels in xp parties.... so only having to cure one or two people while doin random stuff feels like a vacation.

Hate control, defense over attack on gear and blahblahblah a million things!, are things that people never get a chance to learn. They run around sayin I R LV 50! I R NA SERVER FIRST ON SOMETHIN! and still have no freakin clue how to play within a role. If the fighting to level up were more challenging (like i wish it was) I'd hope that people would have a better understanding that they, personally, are not supposed to be top-DD, best tank, A#1 mp sponge all at once.

As a side note (edit for spellin), yeah.... I do think taht 2-300k xp per hour in your 40's is too high given what you need to level. that last eight levels should not pass by as quickly as the first eight. Should it slow to a crawl? No, but it should require at least a little effort. No effort = no learning: No learning = no skill: No skill = content unfair to my job!!! q.q posts.

Seriously man, I couldn't have said it better myself. I don't know how many posts on these threads I've come across where ppl say, "well, that's what bosses are for blah blah blah." I don't want to walk into a boss fight, wipe 10 times in a row, and then finally manage to BARELY beat the damn thing, simply b/c no one has any idea how the hell to play (45 raid experience).

That 45 raid is/was a total f@#$ing joke compared to almost everything else in, yes, "FFXI." And while I realize ppl don't want a "clone," that doesn't mean you do the exact oppisite to "solve the problem." And in regards to the pace of battle, either extreme (excruciatingly slow vs. unbearably fast) is bad.

I want to enjoy playing the game...I don't wanna hit max lvl, get all my gear, beat all the bosses, then roam around showing off my UNearned gear and levels. This game won't last a year with that kind of bs.

If it didn't "suck" so bad right now, I'd have max everything w/ all the gear available on every job -not to mention, max gil.

[Mushy]

I like playing multiple monsters not 1 for 30mins unless its a boss, sometimes i want to run through these suckers, we are a powerful team it should not take 10mins to kill an ant

[Dragon]

I like playing multiple monsters not 1 for 30mins unless its a boss, sometimes i want to run through these suckers, we are a powerful team it should not take 10mins to kill an ant

No one's saying that there should only be 1/30min mobs. Far from it.

[Khal_Drogo]

I like playing multiple monsters not 1 for 30mins unless its a boss, sometimes i want to run through these suckers, we are a powerful team it should not take 10mins to kill an ant

Quantity is a quality of its own. I'd rather have 10 lbs of low grade pork that fills me up just fine over a half-ounce serving of finest quality steak that's barely a mouthful if I'm hungry. If I'm not so hungry though, that half-ounce serving of steak would be fantastic for the palate.

lol ...sometimes, I think you guys just like playing "devil's advocate."

Exaggerate much? :P


In FFXI, the ONLY time it could ever take 10 minutes to kill an "Ant" was if your party was either complete "shit," or if you didn't have the right line-up. Now, of course, I do NOT want a repeat of that BS. Having to "/sea all <insert the only viable DD/Tank/Healer/Debuffer here>" all the time is not my idea of fun.

Hell, if you weren't gung-ho enough to make your own parties, you could end up waiting for a party all day, only to have it disband after 10 minutes b/c "you only killed 1 'Ant' in that entire 10 minutes" lol


So, I agree w/ you guys there, for sure. But JUST b/c that happened in XI, doesn't mean it's gunna happen here in XIV. The main thing that caused those issues were badly designed mobs and job system (which lead to the "sam, sam, war, rdm, brd, brd" line-ups that we saw later on).


So, YES, longer more memorable and engaging battles; but, NO, to everything else. The only way I'd be ok w/ that kind of thing was if there were more options for parties (different mobs available in different areas built for a WIDE range of party line-ups, i.e. mobs weak to piercing, mobs weak to slashing, mobs weak to blunt, mobs weak to magic, etc.)

[Natabant]

lol ...sometimes, I think you guys just like playing "devil's advocate."

Exaggerate much? :P


In FFXI, the ONLY time it could ever take 10 minutes to kill an "Ant" was if your party was either complete "shit," or if you didn't have the right line-up. Now, of course, I do NOT want a repeat of that BS. Having to "/sea all <insert the only viable DD/Tank/Healer/Debuffer here>" all the time is not my idea of fun.

So, YES, longer more memorable and engaging battles; but, NO, to everything else. The only way I'd be ok w/ that kind of thing was if there were more options for parties (different mobs available in different areas built for a WIDE range of party line-ups, i.e. mobs weak to piercing, mobs weak to slashing, mobs weak to blunt, mobs weak to magic, etc.)

lol this has gotta be your dumbest thread to date, Khal. Smart thinking on the title though.

By the way, the answer to your question is yes. The whole devil's advocate thing is exactly what you call a troll. They come in and post something to get you riled up, and in this case... like always, you let them get under your skin.

Just wanted to say though... you can try your hardest to make every one listen to you, but in the end it's majority rules. FFXI was great, but it'll take more than fun stories to convince these hardheaded fools.

Maybe if you're lucky 2.0 will have a more XI-like feel to it, and people will realize how much better it makes the game.

[Skies]

lol ...sometimes, I think you guys just like playing "devil's advocate."

Actually the opposite, my deal Khal. It might not be much, but i'm a tabletop RPG player and a game master to boot, and I do make a point of designing my own foes for the party to fight and what they (And me) have said is actually a design choice I personally like. Give them fodder for most of the time, hold back on the big involved fight for when it matters, what it does is create a completely special feel when they are hitting against a hard foe.

Both approaches have quite literally their pros and cons and people like each approach differently, but either of them used to no end bothersome. We need both the challenge to feel like we know what we're doing and the fodder to let us relax.

[Khal_Drogo]

Actually the opposite, my deal Khal. It might not be much, but i'm a tabletop RPG player and a game master to boot, and I do make a point of designing my own foes for the party to fight and what they (And me) have said is actually a design choice I personally like. Give them fodder for most of the time, hold back on the big involved fight for when it matters, what it does is create a completely special feel when they are hitting against a hard foe.

Both approaches have quite literally their pros and cons and people like each approach differently, but either of them used to no end bothersome. We need both the challenge to feel like we know what we're doing and the fodder to let us relax.

Why not create multiple mobs/camping spots, and give ppl the option* to choose which type of battle pace they prefer? Is it difficult to do that on a massive scale? like...basically, "Spam-Fest vs. Strategizing" all the way from "lvl 10 - max lvl."

Would it be difficult to implement a system that gives that option to players at all times?