It is time to get rid of them SE...

[Daralii]

1. Dont tell me how I played I rather enjoyed Titan thank you much

2. NO THEY DO NOT FEEL LIKE A PET CLASS! again Pet Class indicates the at least half of your damage is coming from your pets not yourself. atm they're doing maybe 1/10th of the damage.

3. I already said I enjoyed the micromanagment bit that you can do but they do not feel like a pet class the pets feel like an afterthought not the forefront of what a pet class is..

4. what difficulty spike?

You are never going to get people to reach a consensus on this because everyone's been arguing for 6 years what the core of SMN should be. Some people want it to be a pure DoT job, some people want it to focus on micromanaging egis, some people want to move away from both of those and focus almost exclusively what FF's summoners have traditionally been, namely a wide array of (demi-)primals, and every possible point in between.

[Dyvid]

You are never going to get people to reach a consensus on this because everyone's been arguing for 6 years what the core of SMN should be. Some people want it to be a pure DoT job, some people want it to focus on micromanaging egis, some people want to move away from both of those and focus almost exclusively what FF's summoners have traditionally been and, namely a wide array of (demi-)primals, and every possible point in between.

If the boards have shown anything it is this statement.

2. NO THEY DO NOT FEEL LIKE A PET CLASS! again Pet Class indicates the at least half of your damage is coming from your pets not yourself. atm they're doing maybe 1/10th of the damage.

Though I believe this to be your opinion and not based on actually data from all MMO's, I think it's fair to say FFXIV pets do 25% of the summoners dps (yes that includes Bahamut and Phoenix because they are considered pets). honestly it would be nice for someone to explain to the MMO community what a pet class is since FFXIV's Summoner isn't one. And the last thing, here is 20 pages of egi thread feel free to go through them all for more info: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/s...1&pp=0&page=20

[dinnertime]

Honestly, I've been on the boards a long time and it's the same song and dance with a new twist; damage is underwhelming. Even if/when the adjust the damage the end of the day people are going to still say remove Egis. The heart of the issue isn't how they perform, the damage they do, the utility they have, or if they are even a buggy mess. It's appearance, it's always been about appearance. This has been the number one issue people on the boards have had since 2013.

I have to agree lol. That actually slipped my mind.
I mean, I think their underwhelming appearance is a problem too but I'd never go as far to remove them because of it, but...they're still struggling with Egi's in general that I just think there's good enough reasons for the devs to reconsider them now.

You are never going to get people to reach a consensus on this because everyone's been arguing for 6 years what the core of SMN should be. Some people want it to be a pure DoT job, some people want it to focus on micromanaging egis, some people want to move away from both of those and focus almost exclusively what FF's summoners have traditionally been and, namely a wide array of (demi-)primals, and every possible point in between.

Yeah, this is the biggest issue about SMN. It's as chaotic as the playerbase's opinions. The devs said they put more emphasis on summons this time but the reality is that the divide in SMN's gimmicks became a lot worse, but that's a topic for another thread.

[SWB]

I dont understand. OP wants summoner to not summon?

Egis are perfect and the only change needed is to change the potencies on the tool tip so we know exactly how much potencies they do in regards to our potencies

(Example is egi assualt 1 says 100 potency for ifrit, but it is less then 100 potency as ruin 3 with no dots up is 100 potency.)

Summoner, and egis are wonderful. One for aoe, one for single target, and one for solo duties. Summoner is currently amazing and these changes allow for egi glamours more now than ever.

[Dyvid]

I have to agree lol. That actually slipped my mind.
I mean, I think their underwhelming appearance is a problem too but I'd never go as far to remove them because of it, but...they're still struggling with Egi's in general that I just think there's good enough reasons for the devs to reconsider them now.

Well that is my stance on the debate. Let's fix the problems; have pet potency scale off of whatever our spells do, adjust EAI EAII and Enkindle to make it feel impactful to the job, and add new egi glamours that people would enjoy. Egi's finally have a clearly defined role and just need mending. We no longer have the debate on whether we use Garuda or Ifrit.

[Nyoraii]

Bullcrap.

They have never been more of a pet class than they have right now. You actually have to manually command them to do things, instead of sic, forget and enjoy your third dot. They even react to your commands now as long as you don't spam the buttons like a lunatic. Don't give me that "muh tank egi" rubbish. No one used Titan, especially at Lvl70 when Demi-Bahamut became a thing. Heck, you never used him at any 50 or 60 anyway because he couldn't keep hate off you with even the most rudimentary damage you pumped out.

The only problem at the moment is damage, which is a easy potency/ pet damage calculation fix. And the abrupt difficulty spike between Stormblood and Shadowbringers, which is a more nuanced problem.

Wooooooow you command pets! To do 2% of your overall damage hahaha.

[Nyoraii]

I dont understand. OP wants summoner to not summon?

Egis are perfect and the only change needed is to change the potencies on the tool tip so we know exactly how much potencies they do in regards to our potencies

(Example is egi assualt 1 says 100 potency for ifrit, but it is less then 100 potency as ruin 3 with no dots up is 100 potency.)

Summoner, and egis are wonderful. One for aoe, one for single target, and one for solo duties. Summoner is currently amazing and these changes allow for egi glamours more now than ever.

If you look at a breakdown of SMN's damage, damage from actual summons is much less than both Dots and Ruins, so already SMN in FFXIV isn't an actual Summoner.

[guardin]

1. Dont tell me how I played I rather enjoyed Titan thank you much

2. NO THEY DO NOT FEEL LIKE A PET CLASS! again Pet Class indicates the at least half of your damage is coming from your pets not yourself. atm they're doing maybe 1/10th of the damage.

3. I already said I enjoyed the micromanagment bit that you can do but they do not feel like a pet class the pets feel like an afterthought not the forefront of what a pet class is..

4. what difficulty spike?

he told you how you played because it was the truth. dont give people attitude and be rude when all he was doing was adding a useful and insightful comment...he has a good point about egis ....

[Razard]

1. Dont tell me how I played I rather enjoyed Titan thank you much

That's good and all, doesn't make him useful.

2. NO THEY DO NOT FEEL LIKE A PET CLASS! again Pet Class indicates the at least half of your damage is coming from your pets not yourself. atm they're doing maybe 1/10th of the damage.

Opinion. Also according to who? Who doth bequeathed knowledge from on high that Yon pet class must do Upon 50% of damage to be considered yon REAL pet class.

Real talk for a moment, I think it was said earlier about how if the Egis do too much damage, SMNs damage will take a hit because we'd be too "safe" compared to other classes. Like BRD took a hit in 2.0 for being extremely mobile while doing decent damage.. It's been the eternal conundrum of SMN since it's inception. How much damage do we afford the pet before SMNs damage gets nerfed into oblivion?

3. I already said I enjoyed the micromanagment bit that you can do but they do not feel like a pet class the pets feel like an afterthought not the forefront of what a pet class is..

Well I FEEL like we've never had more control over our pets than we do right now. Even if their damage is a little under-tuned. We'll see when the Savage patch drops to see class changes.

4. what difficulty spike?

Oh come on how, like you haven't noticed players mentioning how much more difficult the class is to play optimally since the expansion dropped. That our buttons-per-minute has increased. All while having to keep track of Dot timers, DWT/FBT cooldown, Egi assaults w/ Enkindle, Summon Bahamut and Ruin 4s. I know saying this will inspire the GitGuds to flex about how it's not that hard and how they beat Dark Souls by twerking a controller between their buttcheeks to the beat of Darude Sandstorm. But there has been a noticeable spike in difficulty between The 26th and the 28th of June.

[Taranok]

I would agree with removing the egis, but only if the remaining temporary summons become the overwhelming focus of the class at all levels that you would have had a pet. Summoning big, powerful things that come in quick and leave after a time, only to be replaced by another one.

The Egis, if kept, should be an oGCD you use at some point to temp summon more summons or what have you, but existing simply as a permanent DoT isn't very interesting by itself.