How it used to be...

[Shurrikhan]

To be fair today's mentality of "it only gets good at the late/end game" doesn't help. For some reason videogaming culture, especialy on MMOs, shifted to a "must reach cap ASAP to enjoy".

Probably because the design of those MMOs is increasingly focused on endgame, often to the neglect or even minor disruption of everything prior?

[Shurrikhan]

I get you were posting your opinion. I guess I thought people were thinking I was saying that the only reason was because of WoW. Which isn't close to true. Sorry If I offended anyone.

It's just one of those things like when you hear of people 'cleaning' their ears with cue tips or making buildings out of asbestos and you're like, "...Really? Still?"

I've been here since a month or two after 1.0's release. Its just that in the time from the reboot to now I've seen a constant trend of "if they're not how I want my fellow party members to act, they must be toxic, and probably from WoW", when there's been nothing to substantiate that generality.

Unsurprisingly, I've also played WoW since its original game, and probably only with the end of SB eclipsed my hours played there with hours played here. But, as anecdotal evidence is apparently enough to go by... the opposite trend has mostly held true for me.

1.x held some of the most exclusive parties for its endgame I'd ever seen, where you practically needed the gear that a piece of content would reward just to get into that piece of content and in other areas only certain jobs were even permissible, leaving it open and friendly... until you hit endgame. 2.x opened the floodgates for placation whereby anyone who informed you that there's more to learn from the game or how you might improve your performance could be threatened into silence and spending the majority of your time idle as a healer could be defended as "a difference in playstyle". Since then, I've seen more animosity and hostility in XIV, at anywhere but the higher ends of content, than in any of the several MMOs I've played seriously. (Effectively, it was the reverse of the 1.x trend; if you were willing and able to learn, you were welcomed in more serious content, but outside of that content you could still be met with mild hostility even for just silently doing your job well when with people who refuse to partake in the more serious content.)

Just look at the number of forum topics on tangential subjects like one's right to actively underperform. You just don't these, in such quantity if at all, in other MMOs.

Of course when you have one group of players playing by the normal rules of "I should probably do whatever my toolkit allows me to and in whatever way best helps my party," and the other by "What are the exact limits of what I'm technically responsible for?" But, above all else, that's an XIV thing, not the result of some interbred spawn of invaders from other MMOs. Design and especially developer feedback decisions allowed for this.

[Ghald]

How it used to be in FF14 version 1.0


No world transfer


No name change


No Fantasia potion



No chocobo


No cheap teleportation (teleport cost Anima, you get 1 Anima every 4 hours) heck I used to make a living taxiing people by saving up on Anima.


Weapons and gears can only be repair by crafters and only if the crafter have the right combination of crafting class to repair the said equipment.


Experience point earn very slowly (getting 200exp per kill was a big thing back then).
I was studying at the time so I could only play about 2 hours per day on weekday and it took me around 9 months to get my Gladiator class to Lv.50. Getting your class to Lv.50 was something to be celebrate about, now maxing level is just rushing to the end game contents where all the 'fun' stuff are.
This in a way breed the type of players that have no patience, they want thing done and they want it done yesterday.



In a close community you can't get away with what player of to day can get away with. If you have a bad reputation, people on your home world will know about it, no body will want to party with you and in the world of 1.0 soloing content is impossible.


It may sounds like I want this game to go back to how it was in 1.0 but far from it. 1.0 have it great points but it was a pain to play. Due to its much slower pace nature, people are in no rush. Most of us were just picking away at it day by day.


Yes there are bad eggs even during those early time but they are far few in between and that is because they are hold accountable to their actions and there are clear consequences for being a rude/nasty player.

[Caitsithhh]

You know if anyone would own their own mistakes I wouldn’t be forced to call out the weak link....toxic right?!?! The entitlement is real here folks but that’ll never change. I was trash when I first started in 2.1, got told I was trash(but a lot more harshly), reported the player, and thought that was ok. Fast forward to after I realized I was trash; I ended up joining this same “toxic” players static and we cleared all of the raids before Heavensward together. Fact remains there is a lot of trash here and it’s not going anywhere with just patting one another on the back before the vote abandon passes. Getting good at anything takes hard work. The typical dungeon can be phoned in, but current savage and ex trials REQUIRE you to have half a brain and competency for your class. That’ll never change. Just assuming you’re playing your class right without using places like “The Balance” tends to be the worst of players. Respect one another’s time in challenging content and the “toxic” behavior will be killed before it even starts. But as it stands right now, nobody owns their own shortcomings...and then the guy noticing this asks “why” gets tagged as toxic. Places like SSS exists to show you if you’re playing your class correctly yet nobody even uses them or says “I got it down to 4% so I’m fine”. Before I go into any challenging content I spend hours on a dummy and then go to SSS and see if I’m comfortable with my rotation enough to even join a pf for the content. Anything that rewards top tier loot and is current should be respected enough first with preparation before you deserve any benefit of the doubt or pity. But alas it’s not that way, never been that way, and the skill gap grows every expac...leading to more and more toxicity since there’s less and less respect for one another’s time.

[van_arn]

I think a lot of this so called toxicity comes from the perspective of players who were welcomed to the game with open arms, never needed to learn or do anything for themselves, and were never given a challenge by the game that required them to read their tooltips.

Then they get higher and higher in levels, and it becomes less cute that the dps isn't using aoe or the healer is spamming physick-- even if that player never needed to before.

They have fond memories of the early game, but the more they do the more they run into "toxic" people -- nevermind the toxic one is the person that didn't read their tooltips.

I suppose that means it's working. People can progress too far, but they'll feel unwelcome if they don't have anything to offer.

[Fawkes]

I’ve recently noticed how cruel some people can be on this game.. when I first started playing everyone was really friendly and willing to help others. Now if you get caught trying to enjoy the game or make mistakes you are cursed out, kicked and shunned. It’s really upsetting. It makes me not want to interact with anyone anymore.

Please leave some feedback on how you feel about this.

*I am only talking about ridiculous situations where people are being outrageous. Not being kicked for ruining a farm party. Still could be handled a nicer way though.

You're looking at the game with some rose colored pince-nez...

[Kuroka]

I’ve recently noticed how cruel some people can be on this game.. when I first started playing everyone was really friendly and willing to help others. Now if you get caught trying to enjoy the game or make mistakes you are cursed out, kicked and shunned. It’s really upsetting. It makes me not want to interact with anyone anymore.

Please leave some feedback on how you feel about this.

*I am only talking about ridiculous situations where people are being outrageous. Not being kicked for ruining a farm party. Still could be handled a nicer way though.

Well my wife and me can sight that, itmay not be the rule but it has gotten rough sometimes...

[Kaethra]

Probably because the design of those MMOs is increasingly focused on endgame, often to the neglect or even minor disruption of everything prior?

You mind telling me which MMO focuses on endgame primarily? The only one I know of is 20 years old.

All of the modern MMOs in the last 15 years focus over 80% of their time with questing, leveling, and lore content. Aka solo player content. Even FFXIV does this.

[Kikoten]

I'm not typically one to make passive-aggressive marks at people, let alone curse someone out if I'm in a foul mood. I've noticed that my first reaction is to bluntly say, "We gotta do this, this, and this," if I feel someone isn't doing the mechanics. It's when someone makes the first mark at me that I play their game and bark back at them.

Is that the best solution? Not really. But sometimes it feels good.

Edit: Sometimes I fail at inflection. Recently, someone told me, "Dancer, you need to be aoeing groups." They had a point, but I was kind of irritated at the time, so I sarcastically said, "Anything else I should be doing?" Of course, it didn't come off that way -- it came off to them that I was genuinely seeking information on how to better my own contribution to the run. I guess that's one instance where I failed at snapping at someone.

[Rilifane]

I’ve recently noticed how cruel some people can be on this game.. when I first started playing everyone was really friendly and willing to help others. Now if you get caught trying to enjoy the game or make mistakes you are cursed out, kicked and shunned.

I hope by enjoying the game, you don't mean the "lul I play how I want". Nobody has anything against other's enjoying the game as long as their enjoyment doesn't mean others suffer.

Been around since ARR beta and at first, I sucked. I frequently forgot Lucid Dream and ended up standing around because I was oomp, I didn't bodyslam the tanks when I had aggro and instead ran around, I miscalculated the range of my spells, I was sure Sprint won't work in combat and so didn't use it to dodge stuff/ catch up to others, always stood at the end of the world because I'm ranged so I need to stand super far away, failed several mechanics in leveling dungeons and whatnot.
Yup, I definitely sucked and I was fodder for the "Tales from the Duty Finder" thread. But back then everyone was new, it was cute and funny to suck.
But I'm not a lv 20something CNJ anymore, we're not 2 weeks into launch anymore, I learned either by reading tooltips, others giving me pointers or (god forbid) reading/ watching guides. If I did the same things I did back then in.. say.. 50+ content, I would certainly deserve a couple of stern words from the other 3/7 people, if not a kick.

This game has been around for many, many years and past a certain level some things can be expected from a player. Basic competence, for example.
However there are virtually NO consequences for lacking said basic competence and other people pay the price for it. Needless to say, after a couple of years carrying others, some get riled up pretty fast.
If someone is actually abusive, you can report them, blacklist them and you're good. Because there are very real consequences for lack of etiquette - unlike for the lack of basic competence.
However over the years I've noticed that a lot of players are really sensitive when it comes to getting advice, constructive criticism or simply getting caught failing miserably at something.
You know, things like "xy please turn the mobs in one direction. telegraphs are all over the place" or "if you dps dont let the party die because of it" or "xy you killed me with your target marker. if I dodge your stuff at least don't follow me".
I read that sort of thing all the time, the cases of insults and verbal abuse are really, really low compared to that. Most of the time it's neither overly polite and super friendly but certainly not abusive or insulting either.

And if you're ruining a farm party, a kick is well deserved. Farm parties mean everyone already knows what they're doing and you don't get a private lesson after failing mechanics. You get a kick. End of story.