How it used to be...

[Oscura]

People say this about WoW, also. I can't help but wonder if the people saying this are part of the problem. That's the only explanation I can think of for not being able to see how things have changed.

Thanks for insinuating that just because I do not agree things have changed, or are "blind," to it, that I must be part of the problem. The fact you even felt the need to amuse such a ridiculous viewpoint shows an incredible lack of self-awareness. "People don't see what I see? They must be why it's happening in the first place," is even more negative than the "change" people keep talking about.

In 2.0 I got mocked for casting melee LB during Ifrit HM when it was brand new and not knowing that you had wait for caster to LB the nails. My guild leader, who I thought was a stand up guy, laughed at me and said he specifically didn't tell me to "see what would happen." A week or two later a group I had flamed me for wiping at demon wall in Amdapor Keep because I was a dragoon and it was impossible to do positionals there, so it was "all <my> fault," and I should, "just leave since melee is bad." This was before vote kicking, so they simply trash talked me until I left. I could give you dozens of examples of rudeness, abuse, and downright bullying I've seen through every single iteration this game has had since ARR. Though yes, people saying that nothing has changed are definitely part of the problem.

[RyuSaarva]

Thanks for insinuating that just because I do not agree things have changed, or are "blind," to it, that I must be part of the problem. The fact you even felt the need to amuse such a ridiculous viewpoint shows an incredible lack of self-awareness. "People don't see what I see? They must be why it's happening in the first place," is even more negative than the "change" people keep talking about.

In 2.0 I got mocked for casting melee LB during Ifrit HM when it was brand new and not knowing that you had wait for caster to LB the nails. My guild leader, who I thought was a stand up guy, laughed at me and said he specifically didn't tell me to "see what would happen." A week or two later a group I had flamed me for wiping at demon wall in Amdapor Keep because I was a dragoon and it was impossible to do positionals there, so it was "all <my> fault," and I should, "just leave since melee is bad." This was before vote kicking, so they simply trash talked me until I left. I could give you dozens of examples of rudeness, abuse, and downright bullying I've seen through every single iteration this game has had since ARR. Though yes, people saying that nothing has changed are definitely part of the problem.

maybe you just like to hang out with toxic people since you keep finding them.

[Oscura]

maybe you just like to hang out with toxic people since you keep finding them.

I guess no one has ever told you that duty finder randomly selects party members when you jump into a queue.

I don't choose who I "hang out" with when I solo queue.

[CazzT]

Thanks for insinuating that just because I do not agree things have changed, or are "blind," to it, that I must be part of the problem. The fact you even felt the need to amuse such a ridiculous viewpoint shows an incredible lack of self-awareness. "People don't see what I see? They must be why it's happening in the first place," is even more negative than the "change" people keep talking about.

In 2.0 I got mocked for casting melee LB during Ifrit HM when it was brand new and not knowing that you had wait for caster to LB the nails. My guild leader, who I thought was a stand up guy, laughed at me and said he specifically didn't tell me to "see what would happen." A week or two later a group I had flamed me for wiping at demon wall in Amdapor Keep because I was a dragoon and it was impossible to do positionals there, so it was "all <my> fault," and I should, "just leave since melee is bad." This was before vote kicking, so they simply trash talked me until I left. I could give you dozens of examples of rudeness, abuse, and downright bullying I've seen through every single iteration this game has had since ARR. Though yes, people saying that nothing has changed are definitely part of the problem.

Your claim is that things have not changed. I, and many others, do not see this reality. Saying you had a bad experience many years ago does not invalidate that things have changed. No one said "things like this never happened in the old days". What we're saying is "things like this happened far less and were not tolerated like they are today".

People who assume we're saying "it never happened" tend to be the people who engaging in the bad behavior. Hence my statement of "I have to wonder".

[Oscura]

Your claim is that things have not changed. I, and many others, do not see this reality. Saying you had a bad experience many years ago does not invalidate that things have changed. No one said "things like this never happened in the old days". What we're saying is "things like this happened far less and were not tolerated like they are today".

People who assume we're saying "it never happened" tend to be the people who engaging in the bad behavior. Hence my statement of "I have to wonder".

Change is relative and you will never be able to reach a consensus on something that large of a scale. All of it is anecdotal and everyone has different experiences. To many people, nothing has changed at all. To you and others, things have changed. You cannot prove there is a direct correlation between "people who were/are toxic," and "people who don't believe things have changed," which is why I even stated what I said. You are creating a rift to separate those who disagree with you, which is pretty toxic in itself. It's not as if I stated, "It has always been this way, anyone who disagrees with me needs to get thicker skin and is a crybaby." I simply stated my opinion that FFXIV wasn't any nicer than any other MMO. I think it's quite frankly rude to suddenly insinuate that I might be part of "the problem," simply because my viewpoint and experiences are different than yours. Saying you had good experiences, or did not have as many bad experiences in the past, does not invalidate my opinion that things have not changed either. It is a two way street.

Edit: Also, I never assumed you or anyone said it "never happened." I just said that it "hardly changed," that it happened more than people believed. You're putting words in my mouth.

[CazzT]

I guess no one has ever told you that duty finder randomly selects party members when you jump into a queue.

I don't choose who I "hang out" with when I solo queue.

"When everyone else is the problem, perhaps the problem is not everyone else"

Change is relative and you will never be able to reach a consensus on something that large of a scale.

Except we can. The degree of the change is the part that's relative. That there has been a change is fact. Your claim is that there has been no change. Which is false.

But I'm not going to waste my limited number of daily posts arguing about this.

[Oscura]

"When everyone else is the problem, perhaps the problem is not everyone else"

Yet again insinuating that I am the problem with a limited amount of facts or even context. Most of the instances of toxicity I have witnessed have been just that, as a witness. A tank yelling at a black mage and calling them names for not properly AoEing has nothing to do with me, but sure, insist the "common denominator" argument not realizing how hypocritical it is that you are insulting my character. Alliances yelling at each other while I sit there silently has nothing to do with how I act. I cannot control people.

Your claim is that there has been no change. Which is false.

hardly anything has changed.

Is reading optional for you?

Stop trying to gatekeep your moral high ground.