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  1. #11
    Player
    cactusking's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    16
    Character
    Teva Rahat
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 71
    Quote Originally Posted by Archwizard View Post
    Or, and hear me out here, they could... not nerf the job.
    I'd encourage you to read past the very first sentence of my post. I actually spend the second paragraph asking for buffs to the class.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drayos View Post
    RDM has always done poorly compared to other casters, as they bring a instant Rez’s (unless it was removed.)
    Which is entirely reasonable. I'm not making a case for why they should match BLM, especially given that they have a much easier rotation. But they could still do with some potency increases, especially if a proc chance is reduced. If I get a proc that replaces spell A with spell B, I want to feel pretty good about getting to press B. Instead I get a reskinned Jolt II, since it's barely a potency increase.

    And maybe 'too many procs' was a vague way to describe the point. The issue isn't overwriting procs, it's the sensation that you simply can't get rid of them. The moment you spend one, another shows up. What's the point of a chance to proc if they're so plentiful? For example: direct crits on your big damage abilities feel really good to see. Big numbers like that are fun because they don't show up often. If you tone down a proc chance, but increase other aspects of the skill to compensate, it'll be more satisfying to get it since it'll feel noticeably different than just a paltry increase over the spell you were going to cast instead.

    The primary focus of the topic is both fun and flavor, both of which seem to be priorities when discussing other classes, ie. Monk and Scholar. I think they should be a priority for all classes, including Red Mage, even if it's something as simple as tweaking some numbers to make the rotation more satisfying to play.
    (0)

  2. #12
    Player
    Archwizard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    A café at the edge of the universe
    Posts
    1,130
    Character
    Archwizard Drake
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by cactusking View Post
    I'd encourage you to read past the very first sentence of my post. I actually spend the second paragraph asking for buffs to the class.
    Oh, Mr. Kettle? Mr. Pot called for you.

    I'm aware of your intent, but I also explained throughout the rest of my post that such compensation isn't necessary as we already have tools to deal with "too many procs"; being able to actively manage the ones we have is the nearest semblance RDM has to a skill ceiling.

    I imagine that you have rather the wrong idea about Jolt's relationship with the job. The comparatively low output of Jolt makes it less of a "filler" skill, and more of a generic starter to get the procs rolling that are intended to fill its space. Having procs be plentiful is rather intentional; the Red Mage is, after all, intended to mix Black and White Magics, not just throw out their "balanced" skills.

    Furthermore, "just increase the potencies" is easier said than done. The kit as it stands has a surprisingly delicate balance, as you not only have to consider that there are very small gaps between Jolt, the VerQuick procs and the VerLong spells, respectively, but also that the effective speed of our rotation is affected by the Mana generation of the procs, and the potency per second value of all spells needs to be taken into consideration on any buff to the lower-end. The most likely case would end up being that any proc chance reduction on the VerQuick spells would lead to any compensory potency being pushed back deeper into our rotation so as not to minimize the effect on PPS values in the rotation.

    So what you're asking for is both a rather substantial ask, controversial, and not really necessary.
    (3)

  3. #13
    Player
    Gallus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    1,259
    Character
    Crimson Bloodrose
    World
    Phantom
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Kurando View Post
    Pretty much. RDM can probably get off 2-3 Raises in a longish encounter.
    3 Raises in a long encounter with the ShB RDM? Not even in your wildest dreams XD.
    (2)

  4. #14
    Player
    Adventica6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Lower Jeuno
    Posts
    413
    Character
    Lost Tales
    World
    Diabolos
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 80
    On a long encounter you can rez 1 time, any more and you will have no mana to dps.

    So the utility of Rdm is not actually utility anymore, since you can't use it without ruining your mana. A utility job that can not use it's utility is....I'll leave it at that.
    (3)

  5. #15
    Player
    SaberMaxwell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    1,244
    Character
    Saber Maxwell
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Gallus View Post
    3 Raises in a long encounter with the ShB RDM? Not even in your wildest dreams XD.
    You can do it!

    You can't cast anything after that and might as well be a dead DPS though! :''''D
    (1)
    Quote Originally Posted by Packetdancer View Post
    I either buy my own sandwich or I end up with pork-nostrils.

  6. #16
    Player
    Kurando's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    2,203
    Character
    Ku Rando
    World
    Alpha
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Gallus View Post
    3 Raises in a long encounter with the ShB RDM? Not even in your wildest dreams XD.
    2-3, not just 3 as that would be too optimistic, but from experience I've gotten a couple off and still managed to DPS so it's not that wild a dream. Also Ether tier medicine exists, might not be practical but it helps.
    (2)

  7. #17
    Player
    Willowing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    6
    Character
    Nergui Malqir-dalamiq
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by cactusking View Post
    Please reduce the chance that Verfire/Verstone Ready activate. It's obnoxious to feel like I can't spend these procs fast enough. It also makes the Verflare/Verholy auto-proc seem worthless, since I was probably sitting on both buffs going into the melee combo. It also diminishes the fun in popping acceleration, since again, I have too many procs as it is, forcing one just doesn't feel fun or interesting. Please reduce it to something like 30%, or make it activate off of Veraero/Verthunder crits so it can scale with gear.

    Of course, this needs to be compensated by a decent increase in potency to both skills, since they'll show up less frequently now. Buttons should be fun to press, and buttons you don't get to press very often need to be even more fun, and not just barely a potency increase over Jolt II. Plus these buffs are completely justified, since RDM is doing pretty poorly right now compared to other casters.
    How do people like you function with such severe brain rot? Genuinely curious.

    Usually I can just giggle at posts like this but it's actually baffling to me that someone can play a job so GENUINELY BADLY that they have too many GCD-dependant procs, when they should statistically be consuming one as soon as they get it. Like, the math is literally right there, do you not understand that you're supposed to roll procs into the opposite spell instead of constantly hitting Jolt II? You'd have to have some incredible luck to maintain double procs for any significant length of time.
    (7)
    Last edited by Willowing; 07-22-2019 at 01:25 PM.

  8. #18
    Player
    Shirolumi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    154
    Character
    Nova Phantom
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 90
    No. I find myself starved for procs nowadays if I'm really unlucky.
    (2)

  9. #19
    Player
    osutin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    28
    Character
    Strygr Chocobocalypse
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 74
    Archwizard, do you still find RDM engaging despite believing that it has a low skill ceiling? I'm considered leveling the class but am a bit put off by so many people claiming it has a boring rotation. What draws you to the job?
    (0)

  10. #20
    Player
    Lium's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    1,026
    Character
    Brielle Artemus
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    Viper Lv 100
    The whole point of casting is to get in as many verfire/verstones as possible before charging in for your melee combos. That's why accelerate exists and that's why one procs after verflare/verholy. I honestly wish they would proc more.
    (1)

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