Small tweak for RDM

[Ardox]

Spells that target enemies and spells that target friends use different animations. There's a different kind of sheen to an enemy cast spell than a self-cast spell. Not to mention Blue Magic uses its own swirly regardless of element.


The swirly you see is the generic swirly for abilities, but lightning sprits have a special sparking animation to go with their casts for their spells, and so on; what you do see is -before- the swirl/spark, for a brief second, you do see the same purple-cast aura that a blm has when casting thunder for Thunder Sprites. So, if you look at the water sprites, you can see they do have an offensive cast aura that an aqua blue color.


The cast animation for Vercure and Benefic and Esuna has two colors--blue-purple in the center, and on the outer swirls, the same blue color as the water sprites use in their subtle offensive cast animation under the swirlies.

However, if you go to Il Mheg, and you fight undines, when they cast water II, they don't have the 'ability swirl' you describe. They have a bluish purple casting aura--the exact same blue purple in Vercure et al.'s cast aura.

What we don't see are the rainbow effects of unaspected spells, which contain hints of red and blue and green, as well as white--something you can see for yourself.



Except for Undines casting Water II, Sahaguin casting Enwater....



They deal physical damage. Not 'unaspected' which is magical. You can test that for yourself with Embolden.



Blizzard IV doesn't deal physical damage. RDM abilities do. Everyone knows this. Test it for yourself.




Claiming the swords are 'unaspected damage' when they're physical would be imposing 'head canon as fact.' And it is entirely possible to channel ice-aspected aether and deliver a physical attack. Samurai do!

Thanks, I just didn't had the patience anymore

[Archwizard]

-snip-

First off, Esuna doesn't have the same color animation as Vercure/Benefic. Esuna has a much deeper, richer shade of unambiguous indigo (more akin to the casting of Teleport), while Vercure/Benefic use what appears to be a desaturated mixture of colors (silver, blue, purple).

Second, I checked in Ruby Sea against the Red Kojin enemies and Water Sprites, all of whom use the aquamarine swirl when casting Water that I described, which matches oGCDs.
I'll check Sahagin when I get home but since you didn't see Esuna as being different it's not looking good for ya.

I'm trying to wrap my head around how you claim impacting someone with a magically-conjured elemental weapon is nonelemental while dropping a giant ice crystal on someone is elemental. That's the definition of "cherrypicking".
Yes, Blizzard IV is elemental, in spite of the impact. That's my point. It doesn't make sense to claim the impact is different for Fleche when Blizzard IV proves that doesn't matter.
My apologies for using "unaspected" as shorthand for "literally not ice", I wasn't aware we'd be this pedantic.

Lastly, for Samurai, I'd say that's more due to game mechanics. Having most of their kit inherit benefits from Slash vulnerability and Melee buffs would hinder any magic-aspected attacks rather than aid them.
Red Mage, who gets self-buffs towards Magic damage, has no such excuse.

EDIT: Checked Sahagin Skirmishers in Western La Noscea. As I suspected, the casters used the same animation for Water as the Kojin and Sprite enemies I previously observed -- the oGCD aquamarine, not Vercure/Benefic's mix.
The unarmed warriors had a different effect for casting that lacked the swirls, but was a lighter shade of the same base aquamarine color.

Not to be outdone, I went to Il Mheg to observe the Undines. Their basic attack uses -- surprise -- the same exact effect for casting Water as I observed with all other mobs thus far. The same shade as oGCDs.
They do however have a unique effect for casting Water III, which I observed as being used by other mobs on their "most powerful charged attack" -- sort of an gold-tinted variation on the unaspected spell effect. Again, not the same color as Vercure or Benefic. Not even the same color as Esuna.

In conclusion, you're colorblind.

[Maero]

To each their own i guess, if you like Red Mage as it is that's great but many have asked for water based spells to be added.
We could at least agree that mana is by far the biggest issue with Red Mage atm

[Archwizard]

To each their own i guess, if you like Red Mage as it is that's great but many have asked for water based spells to be added.
We could at least agree that mana is by far the biggest issue with Red Mage atm

Now you're putting words in my mouth. I don't disagree with adding water spells to RDM, I simply disagree with your reasoning that we "need" water magic for its own sake. That type of diversity is aesthetic, not functional; we would all rather gain an unaspected or reused-aspect spell that adds to our kit and rotation, than a water spell that adds nothing.

As for MP, it may not necessarily be the single biggest issue, though it is among them. Right now I would say our biggest issues are somewhere between that, our excessively low potency in spite of the weakening of our Verraise utility, and the fact we gained two skills this expansion that we're intended to avoid whenever possible, with Reprise not even being worth its GCD much less its Mana cost.

[Maero]

Now you're putting words in my mouth. I don't disagree with adding water spells to RDM, I simply disagree with your reasoning that we "need" water magic for its own sake. That type of diversity is aesthetic, not functional; we would all rather gain an unaspected or reused-aspect spell that adds to our kit and rotation, than a water spell that adds nothing.

As for MP, it may not necessarily be the single biggest issue, though it is among them. Right now I would say our biggest issues are somewhere between that, our excessively low potency in spite of the weakening of our Verraise utility, and the fact we gained two skills this expansion that we're intended to avoid whenever possible, with Reprise not even being worth its GCD much less its Mana cost.

Well then i must have misread what you said so i apologize.

I just want more variety for RM and higher potencies but in a sense because of less mana cost now i suppose it is a buff?

[Nalien]

A full elemental wheel to make Red Mages rotation a bit more robust would be nice, but given most seemed happy with Red Mages rotation seeing (essentially) no change with Shadowbringers, I imagine I'm in the minority with that.

Still, I'd like a job with full access to the elemental spells, that cycles through them in a wheel-correct manner, and Red Mage is the perfect candidate until Geomancer gets added...

Add Verwater and Verblizzard as our Verscathe, higher potency than Scathe, but the trade off is lower Mana generation perhaps.
Change Reprise to inflict "Elementally Charged" on the target, change it to an ability with a mid-to-low cooldown.
When an enemy with "Elementally Charged" is hit with a Verstone/Veraero/Verwater/Verfire/Verthunder/Verblizzard spell, they become charged with that element.
Verstone/Veraero/Verwater/Verfire/Verthunder/Verblizzard gain a bonus when following the elemental wheel.

Now, this is where we decide what elemental wheel we want to follow, the classic one with all the elements (Fire/Ice/Wind/Earth/Thunder/Water), or XIVs dual wheel, where Water/Lightning/Earth and Fire/Ice/Wind sit separately. I'm incline to stick to XIVs, just because you can also play around with Mana generation in that case; Doing the Wind>Ice>Fire rotation boosts Black Mana generation (perhaps Verblizzard and Verfire get bonus Mana, Veraero gets bonus damage?), doing the Earth>Lightning>Water rotation boosts White Mana generation (and same here, Verstone/Verwater bonus Mana, Verthunder bonus damage). Would be a new way to play around with the gauge building. Do a Reprise, hypercharge your White Mana generation, do another Reprise and switch to building Black Mana.

[Archwizard]

A full elemental wheel to make Red Mages rotation a bit more robust would be nice, but given most seemed happy with Red Mages rotation seeing (essentially) no change with Shadowbringers, I imagine I'm in the minority with that.

Quite the opposite actually. Many of us were disappointed at the relative lack of expansion to the job, particularly since two out of three new skills are to be avoided as often as possible and the third was a big contributor to our MP issues until literally tonight's patch. No more depth or complexity was added to the job outside of AoE.

But, at the same time, RDM is still young. To change it up too much in the immediate next expansion would make the design seem manic. The devs chose to focus first on putting final refinements on the existing design before expanding it, which is a very practical approach if nothing else.

Still, I'd like a job with full access to the elemental spells, that cycles through them in a wheel-correct manner, and Red Mage is the perfect candidate until Geomancer gets added...

Yeeeeeah... Hate to break it to you but GEO NPCs are already in-game and they're basically super-CNJs. In fact there are rumors GEO was initially meant to branch off CNJ (like SCH and SMN off ACN) as another DPS alternative, before they decided SCH would be the last class advancement ever.

I highly doubt we'll see GEOs as your elemental wheel casters -- the lore so far has been very big on their mastery of air and water magic, but nothing governed by Thaumaturgy, since they largely contact similar Elementals to the Twelveswood's Conjurers.
To be honest I would doubt RDM being an elemental wheel caster even if we got all 6; maybe a trait here or there to buff incidental spell combos, but given our access to at least two elements is entirely RNG, doubtful.

[Nalien]

but given our access to at least two elements is entirely RNG, doubtful.

I wouldn't say entirely, but yeah... Honestly I think the Ver-Ready duo could do with some adjustment... Mostly because Impactful is gone now, but if Verfire Ready and Verstone Ready both had a similar stacking effect as Summoners Further Ruin trait? That would be nice, throw in a charge on Acceleration? Would feel better at least, right now the general build rotation feels worse than Dancer to me... Perhaps it's just that I hate Jolt IIs basic af animation and it now sees double the usage with Impactful torn away...

Quite the opposite actually. Many of us were disappointed at the relative lack of expansion to the job, particularly since two out of three new skills are to be avoided as often as possible and the third was a big contributor to our MP issues until literally tonight's patch. No more depth or complexity was added to the job outside of AoE.

Good, though most I've seen in game seemed happy to have no real changes; "At least I don't have to change my hotbar", "At least I don't have to relearn my rotation". Meanwhile I'm sitting here not only lamenting the lack of anything new, but the loss of old things like Impactful and additionals... I ultimately have less to do, and an extra step with Scorch doesn't add nearly enough to make up for that...

Personally I'd prefer a complete elemental wheel to go to a new job (if not Geomancer, Elementalist or something, IDK) since I'd rather see more swordplay on Red Mage going forward, although tying Reprise into the wheel combo did tickle my fancy... Still, I'd rather probably see something like a Fleche/Contre Sixte rework to have them be a bigger part of the rotation than just semi-long oGCDs... The whole aetherial blade concept has a lot of potential for really cool looking attacks IMO, but as it is currently is just a tad... Lackluster... I wont say many nice things about FFXV, but the whole "Look at my spinning shield of aetherial weapons" concept was awesome, change Fleche to that? Perhaps 6 charges and a new gauge element, maybe some other way to generate them as well (a Meditate style skill to have something to do during transitions would be lovely, come to think of it), have various skills (like Engagement, hey look it has a purpose now) fire them off, keep Contre Sixte as a "Fire all" button... Would give Red Mage an amazing new level of visual flair...

[Archwizard]

Personally I'd prefer a complete elemental wheel to go to a new job (if not Geomancer, Elementalist or something, IDK) since I'd rather see more swordplay on Red Mage going forward,

Gonna have to stop ya right there.

Red Mages are not a melee job. We are not Rune Fencers or Mystic Knights or Spellblades. "Mage" is literally in the job title; we're primarily back-line fighters who occasionally enchant our weapons and dip into fencing, not the other way around.
I would argue the swordplay is more incidental and aesthetic.

I agree that the aetherial blade spam has visual appeal -- I've personally suggested summoning a barrier of crystal swords for a counter-based personal mitigation tool many times before, citing Noctis' Armiger and Sora's Ultima Form, "En Garde" is a perfect name -- but let's not get carried away. The Red Mage archetype has always been primarily about blending the opposing forces of White and Black magic, with a splash of better physical stats to make up for its lower potential as a caster, not about tossing out swords as a primary mechanic.

[Nalien]

I agree that the aetherial blade spam has visual appeal -- I've personally suggested summoning a barrier of crystal swords for a counter-based personal mitigation tool many times before, citing Noctis' Armiger and Sora's Ultima Form, "En Garde" is a perfect name -- but let's not get carried away. The Red Mage archetype has always been primarily about blending the opposing forces of White and Black magic, with a splash of better physical stats to make up for its lower potential as a caster, not about tossing out swords as a primary mechanic.

Am I suggesting making the aetherial blades a primary mechanic, though? I'm thinking something along the same lines of Summoners Fester, part of the rotation but the summoning rotation clearly, and rightly, takes priority. Fleche and Contre Sixte are already part of our rotation of course, I'd simply prefer them to be both a bit more visually interesting, and mechanically. Two oGCDs that you simply press on cooldown is just dull. A similar "You have X stacks of Aetherial Blades, spend them before Aether(blade)flow is off cooldown". Don't think I'd even make spending them that intrusive, I'd be more incline to simply change Fleche to give the stacks, then have existing skills (such as Engagement) supplemented by them. Takes what we already have and just makes it a tad more interesting, IMO.

Only new skills I'd actually really like with regards to any of this, would be a Meditate style charge skill to work in to lengthy phase transitions.