MP pool and death

[Nixxe]

RDM mp economy is terrible. In a perfect run where nothing bad happens you'll get by just fine of course--but at that point why didn't you bring a BLM?

Delete. Verraise. Casters don't need to be able to raise. It's not a dps job or utility and things like this are imo a good reason why having raise is stupidly shackling. Summoner and Red Mage have this weird unique thing, not among casters but among all DPS where if they die, they're on the off-foot for the rest of the fight as far as resources are concerned. Both run serious risk of OOMing just from their basic rotation after death.

It's a silly phenomenon brought about by their need to balance the two for having the ability to raise.

RDM only has mana issues after being ressed until Lucid Dreaming comes back up. It's certainly not the rest of the fight, nor is such an inconvenience worth losing Verraise to resolve, as it's easy enough to just not die the overwhelming majority of the time.

[LunarEmerald]

RDM only has mana issues after being ressed until Lucid Dreaming comes back up. It's certainly not the rest of the fight, nor is such an inconvenience worth losing Verraise to resolve, as it's easy enough to just not die the overwhelming majority of the time.

Lucid earns about as much as you spend normally attacking. Every time you rezz you're down 2500 for the rest of the fight. Unless there's downtime to make up for it.

[Nixxe]

Lucid earns about as much as you spend normally attacking. Every time you rezz you're down 2500 for the rest of the fight. Unless there's downtime to make up for it.

I didn't bother to work it out entirely, but if you just spam Jolt and Verwhatever, that's 700 mana every 4.94 sec (with my SpS), which is a little under 6900 mana per minute. Since Verholy and Verflare cost 500 instead of 400, but you spend about 5 seconds not using mana every time you do a melee combo, every melee combo spends 600 mana (500 for the finisher + the extra 100 for Scorch), so it's actually 100 mana less than you'd spend in about the same amount of time. Lucid is worth 3500 mana per minute (500 * 7 ticks) and you passively regen 4000 mana per minute (200 every 3 sec). Before even accounting for any downtime, you have a surplus if you use Lucid Dreaming as much as you can.

[SaberMaxwell]

I didn't bother to work it out entirely, but if you just spam Jolt and Verwhatever, that's 700 mana every 4.94 sec (with my SpS), which is a little under 6900 mana per minute. Since Verholy and Verflare cost 500 instead of 400, but you spend about 5 seconds not using mana every time you do a melee combo, every melee combo spends 600 mana (500 for the finisher + the extra 100 for Scorch), so it's actually 100 mana less than you'd spend in about the same amount of time. Lucid is worth 3500 mana per minute (500 * 7 ticks) and you passively regen 4000 mana per minute (200 every 3 sec). Before even accounting for any downtime, you have a surplus if you use Lucid Dreaming as much as you can.

Jolt 2 cost: 300
Veraero cost: 400
Verholy cost: 500
Scorch cost: 500

Melee combo would cost 1,000 MP, not 600.

Base MP tick rate: 200
Lucid MP tick rate: 500
Difference: 300

Lucid is then, only worth 2100 (300 * 7 ticks), not 3500. It's a distinction that has to be made because you're already counting passive MP regen per minute (200 * 20 = 4000). So with Lucid on cooldown, your regen per minute will be 6,100. Not 7,500. 800 MP deficit with Lucid on cooldown, not even counting for swift usage increasing average MP cost per second, not even counting the melee combo costs 400 more MP than you stated, not even counting for our guest of honor, Verraise with a whopping cost of 2,400 mp all on its lonesome.

[Nixxe]

Jolt 2 cost: 300
Veraero cost: 400
Verholy cost: 500
Scorch cost: 500

Melee combo would cost 1,000 MP, not 600.

Base MP tick rate: 200
Lucid MP tick rate: 500
Difference: 300

Lucid is then, only worth 2100 (300 * 7 ticks), not 3500. It's a distinction that has to be made because you're already counting passive MP regen per minute (200 * 20 = 4000). So with Lucid on cooldown, your regen per minute will be 6,100. Not 7,500. 800 MP deficit with Lucid on cooldown, not even counting for swift usage increasing average MP cost per second, not even counting the melee combo costs 400 more MP than you stated, not even counting for our guest of honor, Verraise with a whopping cost of 2,400 mp all on its lonesome.

Actually, yeah, I calculated the finisher incorrectly, but it's 1000 mana in the same time you'd have spent 1400 mana if you kept spamming whatever, so it's still a relatively cheap span of time that drops the baseline mana spending from what I stated.

Lucid gives you 500 per 3 in addition to the 200 per 3. The ticks happen independently of each other.

You're still running a surplus with good Lucid usage.

[SaberMaxwell]

Actually, yeah, I calculated the finisher incorrectly, but it's 1000 mana in the same time you'd have spent 1400 mana if you kept spamming whatever, so it's still a relatively cheap span of time that drops the baseline mana spending from what I stated.

Lucid gives you 500 per 3 in addition to the 200 per 3. The ticks happen independently of each other.

You're still running a surplus with good Lucid usage.

I stand corrected on Lucid, I cede there.

700 MP cost per 4.94s = 141.7 MP/s

141.7 * 60 = 8,502.02

Subtract 400 because we can assume 1 melee combo per minute.

8,102.02 mana per minute.

How'd you get 6,900?

[Nixxe]

I stand corrected on Lucid, I cede there.

700 MP cost per 4.94s = 141.7 MP/s

141.7 * 60 = 8,502.02

Subtract 400 because we can assume 1 melee combo per minute.

8,102.02 mana per minute.

How'd you get 6,900?

I hit the wrong button on the calculator it would seem, so I accidentally squared 2.47 instead of doubling it, and I wasn't paying attention so I didn't catch it.

/shrug

[SaberMaxwell]

I hit the wrong button on the calculator it would seem, so I accidentally squared 2.47 instead of doubling it, and I wasn't paying attention so I didn't catch it.

/shrug

It puts us back to a deficit of about 600 assuming no downtime and perfect Lucid usage. *shrug*

[Nixxe]

It puts us back to a deficit of about 600 assuming no downtime and perfect Lucid usage. *shrug*

Yeah, but there are other considerations that are more irritating to account for, such as how many finishers per minute you're getting, since those consume less mana per second compared to baseline, and use of things like Moulinet and Reprisal, which also eliminate casts in favor of a 0 mana attack. My original claim is based off of play experience, as I've never found I had an issue following a res once I reached Lucid.

[SaberMaxwell]

Yeah, but there are other considerations that are more irritating to account for, such as how many finishers per minute you're getting, since those consume less mana per second compared to baseline, and use of things like Moulinet and Reprisal, which also eliminate casts in favor of a 0 mana attack. My original claim is based off of play experience, as I've never found I had an issue following a res once I reached Lucid.

Moulinet and reprisal are both losses over the general rotation, so using them to supplement the mp pool isn't a good thing (My RDM has done it, don't get me wrong. When it's a choice between casting and not casting...)

But more than just raising, this thread is about recovery from death. Which is incredibly hard to do. From first death you've essentially entered the MP rat race--living Lucid to Lucid. My statement from before holds true: Red Mage and Summoner are unique among all DPS in that they are the only ones that need to take post-death resources into mind, and it's because they have raise as a utility that otherwise could be used to zombie the party through an encounter.