Why are people complaining about SMN damage?

[Aizomi]

Hello, I've seen plenty of people complain about SMN right now, including about it's damage. I don't really get it. I have a SMN and a BARD at lvl 80, with not very good equipment on either, and on both I can get the Innocence Dummy down to 5% on the test outside Eulmore, but SMN's dummy has a lot more HP AFAIK.

Also I do this while not looking up "optimal rotations" and using a LOT of ruin2, because ruin3 is annoying to use with the pet skills, bahamut and phoenix (I think you lose wyrmwaves by trying to use ruin3, so i just go with 2 to maximize mobility and wyrmwaves). So even by not casting, which I think can reduce my DPS but can make the other stuff easier to use I get more damage on SMN.

Not to mention Bard ~is not~ a support class. What do we have for support? a useless healing boost skill that i should take off my bar bc im not using that? or that little party buff that gives 20% DH every eternity that goes by (which seems a lot...20%. But its 20% DH, thats what? 20% * 25% bonus dmg = 5% bonus dmg, the same as aetherpact). Actually, scratch that. It's worse than aetherpact, since the latter buffs yourself as well, while the bard buff only buffs the other 7 dudes.

AND summoner can even ress, which is awesome. I saw a dude complaining about SMN and RDM having resses bc it drains MP....like seriously? You can save the run by ressing a healer and you think your MP is more precious? Healers spend MUCH more MP right now and can handle it, just use lucid dreaming. Not to mention you can always choose to not ress if you'd like.

Than there's the fact that if mage's LB is something a bit nice to use occasionally, ranged physickal LB is complete garbage, having a long but thin AOE that makes it hard to actually hit many mobs and doing less damage (not to mention the fact that the tank can even move a bit and make you miss lol).

Also, on actual fights i don't see much of a drop on either of these two classes DPS. I imagine I would lose a lot of dps if I played BLM from a dummy to an actual fight, since BLM actually casts stuff, but I don't find that to be the case with SMN.

[MOthe]

I think summoner just need powerfull egi attacks, they are pretty damn weak right now (except for enkindle which is ok but cooldown is too big for its damage.
Egi assault I and II are a joke, you just use them to proc ruin IV, and the moment you use them you are actually losing DPS.
Egi auto attacks are what? 2/10 of ruin's damage? Other things are fine.

[Angry_Evil]

Maybe because SMN was like top 3 on FFLogs and now it's like somewhere in the middle while being even busier? I dunno just a thought

[Aomine1992]

Also, on actual fights i don't see much of a drop on either of these two classes DPS. I imagine I would lose a lot of dps if I played BLM from a dummy to an actual fight, since BLM actually casts stuff, but I don't find that to be the case with SMN.

This is where I question if you even play SMN, cause we are so not that mobile caster we were in SB, if you think this then you are mistaken. BLM is the mobile caster now.

Also the difference between RDM and SMN dps is abysmal in most cases where RDM can out dps a SMN simply cause of its complexity, and how much of a mess it is. This is the same issue we had in SB with BLM and SMN. We got to be mobile and out dps them for a long time until they got fixed.

Now we are in that same boat of being less mobile and doing significantly less dps then we were doing from a percent stand point. Also you need to read those threads they are less about dps and more about how clunky the job has become.

[Aizomi]

BLM is the mobile caster now.

Well, BLM is the one I don't play. And while i get that they have teleports to and from their lines, don't they still need to cast basically all skills?

And what is the reduced mobility is SMN compared to previous SMN?
Just the increased difference between ruin2 and 3? Because if that's it, with more ruin4 procs, two trances, the need to interweave oGCDs and to make sure you get the wyrmwaves all make you not need to stop and cast ruin3 that often. Even against a dummy, I at least, do more dmg if I don't try too hard to use ruin3.

[Aomine1992]

Well, BLM is the one I don't play. And while i get that they have teleports to and from their lines, don't they still need to cast basically all skills?

And what is the reduced mobility is SMN compared to previous SMN?
Just the increased difference between ruin2 and 3? Because if that's it, with more ruin4 procs, two trances, the need to interweave oGCDs and to make sure you get the wyrmwaves all make you not need to stop and cast ruin3 that often. Even against a dummy, I at least, do more dmg if I don't try too hard to use ruin3.

The fact that you can’t move with either Demi summons or they will stop attacking. You are only mobile in DWT....unless you don’t care about your pet attacking.

[Angry_Evil]

The fact that you can’t move with either Demi summons or they will stop attacking. You are only mobile in DWT....unless you don’t care about your pet attacking.

And we skip DWT to line everything up with party buffs lol

[Aomine1992]

And we skip DWT to line everything up with party buffs lol

Exactly! Tri disaster and a couple ruins then bam back to a ruin turret

[Connor]

I don’t know about actual DPS values, but I feel like most of the issues are based around the large amount of oGCDs that need to be used with the addition of Egi Assaults & Charges, plus managing Energy Drain / Siphon, Aetherflow charges, Dreadwyrm Trance, Summon Bahamut / Firebird Trance, on top of DoT management and Egi placement for Devotion.

That said, personally I do really enjoy Summoner and I feel like being able to stack Ruin IV on top of having so many instant casts during Trances compensates for the volume of oGCD. But I think when people are complaining about Summoner DPS, it’s more about how they do it than what number it is. That’s just how I’ve understood it though

[Aizomi]

Well, I guess I only have SCH (duh) and BRD at 80, so I'm comparing SMN to 2 of the only 4 jobs people are actually more disappointed in than SMN.

But I have some more considerations:

RDM can out dps a SMN simply cause of its complexity

Not to say "git gud", but isnt that the whole point of having different complexity jobs? If you're bad you should deal more DPS with an easier class. If you're good you should DPS more with the harder class, and if you are So-So maybe deal equal damage lol.

I mean, back in stormblood I leveled MCH and I really enjoyed it leveling up, but at end-game stuff I found out I sucked hard and was shit with it even though it was one of the 4 top jobs of the moment, together with ninja, bard and dragoon. Then I tried RDM and SMN and I found out I dealt more dmg as RDM and even more as SMN. So maybe I'm a "so-so" player.

Also, in most duties I've done and tracked DPS this expansion, other SMN were good and most ninjas dealt really low dmg. Probably because it's a hard job most people don't use it right.