General concerns with the Devs content philosophy

[Arkfrost]

Hi everyone,

I know, most of you absolutely love the new expansion. I also really love it and in my opinion so far it is the best expansion until now. The storytelling was brilliant, the main villain was amazing, the skill changes are mostly nice (with only a few exceptions like mainly SMN and Healers) and overall I am very happy with how the expansion turned out.

However, I don't like to see everything through rose-colored glasses and I want to emphasize on the negative aspects as well, which I would love to change in the future, since they really bother me a lot and I believe I'm not the only one having these issues with the game.


1. Role Quests:

This point is pretty self-explanatory. Role Quests just feel like a cheap way for the devs to save workload and I am absolutely unpleased with that.
When Yoshida-san announced, that instead of job quests we are getting only role-quests, but to make up for the less quest-count they're getting a lot of quality improvement.

So I have completed all crafter, gatherer and the melee dps role quests. I've also watched the full role quests of all other roles on YouTube.
Now I am asking myself: "Where is that increase in quality?". So far all role quests are of exactly the same quality as the job quests from Heavensward or Stormblood. I see absolutely nothing special there. Not only are they not special, some are even the same thing, gameplay-wise.

For example the level 70 tank role quest is:
Talk to the questgiver, go to Lakeland, look for sin eater mobs at a certain destination, kill these mobs, do that again, done.
Now look at the physical dps level 70 role quest:
Talk to the questgiver, go to Lakeland, lure out a normal mob with bait the questgiver gives you at a certain destination, kill the mob, done.
Or the magical dps level 70 role quest:
Talk to the questgiver, go to Amh Araeng, look for a sin eater at a certain destination, kill the mob, done.
Or the healer level 70 role quest:
Talk to the questgiver, go to Lakeland, run into a black circle, kill a mob, done.

There is no diversity, like former job quests. Just to show you, what I understand as a unique job quest: Many of the White Mage quests revolved around beating mobs, while at the same time healing a certain objective (like that big tree in the Deep Shroud). Or the Dark Knight job quests, where you had to absorb darkness and make sure you don't take too much damage inbetween different waves of mobs.

But these role quests? They just feel like a copy-pasta of the same general quest-concept, just with different NPCs, slightly different lore-details and somewhat different locations.

2. Missing Gunbreaker and Dancer glamour:

This is one of my biggest gripes with this expansion.

When Stormblood was released we got Ifrit, Garuda, Titan, King Mog, Leviathan, Shiva, Ramuh, Ravana, Bismarck, Thordan, Nidhogg, Sephirot, Sophia, Zurvan, Dreadwyrm, Gordian, Midan and Alexandrian glamour weapons for Samurai and Red Mage.

Now when Dancer and Gunbreaker got released, all we got were Omega weapons for both of them and that's it.
I am not asking, that on top of all these weapons we got for SAM and RDM, we're also getting Susano, Lakshmi, Shinryu, Tsukuyomi, Byakko, Suzaku, Seiryu, Genji, Diamond, Ultimate Dreadwyrm and Ultimate Ultima weapons, but at least give us a decent amount of them. Maybe all the Heavensward and Stormblood primal weapons, the Ultimate weapons and the Stormblood raid weapons, but not just 1 glamour option from pre-Shadowbringers.
That is extremely cheap and sad.


3. "Empty" zone design

Apparently since Heavensward the Devs are making the zones bigger just for the sake of being big (and because of flying giving us a speed boost), but in turn they neglect a vital aspect: Making these zones actually look alive and giving them attention to detail.

I made a collection of screenshots, that show, how barren and empty every zone looks:
https://imgur.com/a/mYAReBb

I do understand, that with Norvrandt I can't expect a land filled with people, due to the flood of light essentially turning the land into a post-apocalyptic zone, but at least give us some clutter, some critters, some more bushes, etc. Fill the zone with things.

And if you're saying that I'm just taking screenshots from afar, where objects aren't loaded, here's another collection of screenshots taken up close, showing how empty the zones are:
https://imgur.com/a/qJEM9Ck

Now what would I want, you ask? I would ask, that the zones are actually filled with things.
The most prominent example of an area that looks absolutely non-immersive is the slums in front of Eulmore. I mean, there are over 60 huts, just in front of the gate, but only a handful of people standing around, the street looks clean, there are barely any boxes, bottles or barrels (seriously, do these people have ANY food/drink at all?) and most especially: There is no junk lying around.
To show, how these could look MUCH better, here's an edited picture comparison I've made to show, how this "slum" would look actually believable:
https://s3.gifyu.com/images/ffxiv_18...115908_451.gif
Here's the static version of that image: https://imgur.com/a/jE4UOtv

And to give you an in-game comparison of empty vs filled, look at the bar in the Crystarium vs the restaurant in Limsa:
https://imgur.com/a/YcgfDUK
The restaurant in Limsa could still have a bit more going on, but it already looks alive and you can see the attention to detail there, while in the Crystarium it's just a few empty tables with stools and one or two NPCs sitting around.

4. Most of the game still not voiced:

The MSQ cutscenes are mostly voiced and there is more voice acting in the game in general now, but still, other MMORPGs like WoW and especially ESO manage to voice almost everything in their game - even sidequest stuff (while still retaining high quality. just look at ESO having different dialects for every race and ways of speaking for different NPCs).
I think we're at a point, where Final Fantasy XIV deserves the resources/budget, to get at least all (new) cutscenes voiced. Or at least all MSQ, Role Quest and Raid Quest cutscenes.


________________________________

So the main point people usually argue with is "Yeah, but the devs only have so many resources". Oh please, don't get me with that.
Although I hate comparing FFXIV with that game, how come the WoW devs are able to do all these things right? Yes, of course WoW has a ton of flaws that make me not wanna play that game, but these flaws, people usually complain about are general design ideas, like Azerite (which is just a grind system, from which we have tons in FFXIV) for example or boringly designed content (island expedition as an example), but those are not a matter of worload spent, but just having the wrong idea, people would not like.
And the point "But WoW has way more resources" is invalid as well. The dev team that worked on 5.0 was 296 people main staff (in-house), 23 people outsourced and over 1200 people working on it in total. Until a few days ago I thought, that WoW must have like 500-800 people working on it, but there I was mistaken. WoW also has only around 200-300 people working as main staff.

I know, that the WoW community is MUCH more whiny than the FFXIV community, but nevertheless: countless development decisions that happen would cause a community outrage, if WoW did something similar, whereas in FFXIV people mostly do not care or just nag a little bit and are fine with it after a few days of playing.

So how come, a game consider "so crappy" can manage to do all these things right, even without having actually more people working on it?

________________________________________

Also, a general issue I have is with the Devs unwillingness to make old content entertaining or worthwhile doing again, like for example challenge mode dungeons. They don't even need to make the dungeons any different. Just increase the HP pool of mobs, let them deal more damage and make beating the dungeon harder, so it deserves getting better rewards at the end (stuff like a good amount of gil, extra tomes, achievements, maybe some pets or a pack of materia tokens).
Yoshida stated, that the devs don't want to touch old content, but at the same time we get stuff like old primals getting an invunerability buff during their ult or other unncecessary changes in old content.

________________________________________

These were the main issues, that just came to my mind at first. Surely, there are even more. However, those are my main concerns as for now.

[noxen]

1: How can you have job specific quests when your job trainer is back on the Source, and there are very limited professions and trainers on the First?

2: This I concur with, it'd be nice to see more unique glamours for the new jobs however we're only a month into the expansion so I'm prepared to wait.

3: Because overfilling zones caused catastrophic failures, see 1.0.

4: Most, if not all, voiced FF titles have the side quests and chores non-voice acted. They're sticking to the theme and it's more than okay. Giving random NPC's and vendors "BALADASH MALARIA" bullshite robs a part of what makes FF FF.

Edit: WoW can do all these things because if they don't, they have no Activision dick to suck for more funding.

[CorbinDallas]

Comparing the Crystarium and Limsa isn't fair considering Limsa is split into 2 zones. Look towards Kugane instead.

As for the WoW thing, it's about quality. WoW might do this or that, but evidently the quality bar ain't so high considering the mass exodus of players we've seen thanks to their latest expansion and simmering frustrations since whenever.

[Seraphor]

1. Job/Role Quests:

How many times do you want to absorb the darkness as a DRK?
How many coliseum tournaments do you want to be involved in as a PLD?
How many voidsent do you want to banish as a BLM?
How many elemental problems do you want to solve as a WHM?

there's only so many things they can do with these jobs.
At the same time, they keep adding more jobs. It's not about cutting corners and being lazy, when their workload is exponentially increasing with each expansion. Something's gotta give, and frankly, being on the First gave them a brilliant, legitimate way of doing this, which gave us valuble backstory in a way that felt valid, and not at all like they were cutting corners.

I think the Role Quests were a brilliant idea for Shadowbringers.
That said, it does leave me concerned for the 6.0 jobs. They'll presumably start at level 70, and what job quests will they get?


2. GNB/DNC glamours:

Yeah, gotta agree with you there.
They should have at the very least received SB primal weapons.


3. Empty Zones:

I felt the zones were adequately populated tbh. But that's from participating in all of the FATEs and Hunts. It felt like every inch was utilized, especially the FATE trains that take you all over the map with interesting stories and lore.


4. Voiced cutscenes:

More voiced cutscenes would certainly be welcome, but this is probably one of the more expensive areas of development. It's less about dev resources, and more just flat budget restraints. This just needs more money thrown at it.

[Rivxkobe]

I disagree with some of your points. It's fine for you to have issues and state what you would like to see but I still disagrre with some of these things and would like to give my opinion on those.

"There is no diversity, like former job quests."

Umm. Where was the diversity again? Changing the enemy you need to kill or object you need to collect doesn't make it "diverse". Hell, I know for a FACT a bunch of the BLM quests were/had "kill golem" as the quest, or the major part of it. Actually, a few Jobs have at least one quest where specifically "kill golem" is their goal (SCH has one).

At least the role quests have, mostly, interesting characters and actually expand the history of the Hero of Darkness and his party.

Just a quick question: Do NPCS not make an area less "empty"? Because seriously confused if they don't. Also, you want the game to have more "things" to make areas look less barren but do not address how this will affect the size of the game, the load times, and the frame rate of many players. Not to mention the amount of time and money this would take.

You also compare WoW and FFXIV by stating the Main staff, outsourced and the total number of people who worked on FFXIV but only the main number of staff for WoW. Not equivalent. The FFXIV devs pooled their resources into other things and gave us a great expansion, which is much more than can be said of the recent expansion for WoW. If WoW did something similar with its areas, of course, people would complain because that's basically all it has at the moment.

[Arkfrost]

1: How can you have job specific quests when your job trainer is back on the Source, and there are very limited professions and trainers on the First?

Then just make new job trainers on the First. Just to give you 5-second thoughts that would instantly come up as ideas for job quests:

PLD: You're training a group of knight recruits in the Crystarium
WAR: You're bonding with the First's Amal'jaa learning about their tribal habits, which could involve some berserking stuff
DRK: You're the posterboy of the expansion. C'mon. Join a group of sin-eater hunters
WHM: You help people that got attacked by Sin Eaters and are a field-doctor
SCH: You help Moren with some research on the faefolk
AST: You study old tomes about the stellar constellations of the First at the cabinet of curiosity
MNK: You learn a new way of meditating from the Nu Mou, who are a pretty chill nature by default, releasing a new form of Chakra
DRG: You learn stuff about the First's dragons from the Amaros in Il Mheg
NIN: You join a shadow group in Eulmore to take down a few corrupt people that exploit the system (even after Vauthry's death)
SAM: You enter a swordsmanship contest in Eulmore
BRD: You learn the songs and archery methods from Norvrandt from some archer/bard dude there
MCH: You help the techies in the Crystarium to craft new gadgets and craft a few new on your own with the knowledge gained there
BLM: You try to heal the land even more by drawing energy from the void, countering the light and restoring balance
SMN: You venture on a study trip in advanced summoning that leads you to the ruins in Rak'tika Greatwood, where you learn more summoner stuff
RDM: Some crazy mages argue about if white or black magic is better and you help them find a middle ground, teaching them red magic
DNC: You learn the dances of Norvrandt
GNB: Well, come up with something. I'm tired of thinking about anything

2: This I concur with, it'd be nice to see more unique glamours for the new jobs however we're only a month into the expansion so I'm prepared to wait.

I'm also prepared to wait for it this time, but if we don't get the glams we got before eventually, I'll be pretty salty about it.

3: Because overfilling zones caused catastrophic failures, see 1.0.

Only if you do it wrong. Coding was one of the major issues of 1.0 and especially the high poly count were the main troublemakers.

4: Most, if not all, voiced FF titles have the side quests and chores non-voice acted. They're sticking to the theme and it's more than okay. Giving random NPC's and vendors "BALADASH MALARIA" bullshite robs a part of what makes FF FF.

Yeah, but at least the raid cutscenes are like the most important content after the MSQ. They deserve voice acting.

Comparing the Crystarium and Limsa isn't fair considering Limsa is split into 2 zones. Look towards Kugane instead.

Alright. Kugane looks amazing. It is filled, with barely any empty space (except for the far outskirts), with NPCs having patrols around the city, etc. Crystarium really is a downgrade compared to Kugane.

As for the WoW thing, it's about quality. WoW might do this or that, but evidently the quality bar ain't so high considering the mass exodus of players we've seen thanks to their latest expansion and simmering frustrations since whenever.

The mass exodus was mainly due to gameplay decisions. Not because of the "lack of quality". People mainly disliked, that their old playstyle got trashed because their old gear got devalued (there is gear with certain active abilities that can impact your playstyle in WoW), they disliked the Azerite grind (which if we're reasonable is WAY less intense than the Eureka grind was) and they disliked general changes like mob scaling in zones and Global Cooldown on everything.

At the same time, they keep adding more jobs. It's not about cutting corners and being lazy, when their workload is exponentially increasing with each expansion. Something's gotta give, and frankly, being on the First gave them a brilliant, legitimate way of doing this, which gave us valuble backstory in a way that felt valid, and not at all like they were cutting corners.

Well, even more reason to make the role quests completely different from each other.

I think the Role Quests were a brilliant idea for Shadowbringers.

I'm not saying, that role quests in general are a bad idea. I also agree, that the general idea is actually pretty great. But what they did with it is, what I'm complaining about. Right because there are so much less quests now, it would give them the opportunity to make entirely different and diverse questlines and they didn't do that.

Instead they made the more or less same questline 4 times, that follow the same path: Kill a few mobs, then learn about the transformed ex Warriors of Darkness, have a flashback about their past, do a solo instance where you play as them, beat them in combat, receive their crystal, done.

3. Empty Zones:

I felt the zones were adequately populated tbh. But that's from participating in all of the FATEs and Hunts. It felt like every inch was utilized, especially the FATE trains that take you all over the map with interesting stories and lore.

I believe most of the credit for that goes to implementing the FATE currency system, which was a brilliant idea. However I'm thinking more about the attention to detail in the landscape and area design, rather than the overall world population.

4. Voiced cutscenes:

More voiced cutscenes would certainly be welcome, but this is probably one of the more expensive areas of development. It's less about dev resources, and more just flat budget restraints. This just needs more money thrown at it.

Completely agree there. This is an issue with Square Enix itself though, rather than the devs. FFXIV deserves more budget, considering how it has grown.

[Sylve]

Have you met the BLM Stormblood questline? The lore was great but the objectives were laughable. Literally 5 quests of "Go here, kill a thing. Great! Now go do that in different locations up to and including the final quest, which is more of the same but the thing you kill is a bit bigger than the other things"

If we get Role Quests going forward, with the old Job quests being condensed into Lore cutscenes, i'd be perfectly happy. Hell, the SCH 80 Job Quest was amazing, but also impossible to have happened without the Healer Role Quest. If that's an example of what they CAN do with Job/Role quests, I look forward to seeing how they might flesh out other jobs stories.

[Exitos]

Instead they made the more or less same questline 4 times, that follow the same path: Kill a few mobs, then learn about the transformed ex Warriors of Darkness, have a flashback about their past, do a solo instance where you play as them, beat them in combat, receive their crystal, done.

I dont think the 4 questlines are that similar. I didnt do the two for the dps classes yet, but the tank and heal questline where quite different objecitve wise. As tank you had to position the enemies, tank them and use stun/silence skills in one of the solo instances. As heal you had to keep you drawf friend alive and sleep the enemies after dropping their HP. Oh yeah and as you played as that lala heal WoD the most part of the solo instance was healing stuff, so completely different from the tank solo instance. So the quests had some aspects of the corresponding role to it.

Another point is the story that was really interesting for the two questlines i did until now. There wasnt anything the same, no they where completly different story wise, just similar things happen at the same lvls but the story is totally different.

[Misutoraru]

Only replying the point of voice acting.
Instead of more voice act, I would rather they use the budget for more quality voice act. I have only try JP and ENG voice and I must admit the English one seem lagging behind when come to voice acting quality, not that they are bad, but there are far better

[BlitzAceRush]

I think role quests present a great opportunity for new story telling for the jobs while allowing the Dev's to keep up with the ever increasing number of jobs.
What I hope they do with them in 6.0 if they intend to keep them is have the jobs come together in larger plots.
For example, something so great that black and white mages need put aside their differences and pull together to stop the threat, Red mage has to being them together, bam, caster role quest, it works with new game plus as playing it as one of the 3 would give you a different perspective.
I think something like that would be interesting, would love to see Paladin's and DRK's having to coexist.