Lack of End Game Content

[Forever_Learning]

Absolutely - but Legion was still a smash.

Really?

Where people who couldn't get an item were BENCHED simply to due to poor RNG, completely unrelated to their ability.

The introduction of massive titantforging everywhere, so you and your raid partner can have massively different item levels, even though you did the same content?

Where the reputation rewards were placed in a lootbox that had such a low chance of giving you the item that you do do the same quests forever, and never earn it?

The introduction of a new area, with weekly quests so barren that today they can all be done in a day, but with time gating, took place for players over the span of months, and in the process, delayed their ability to fly?

Argus - one of the most hated zones ever created; and the newly gained ability to fly - was disallowed?

Professions where progression was also based on RNG, so only something like 10% of miners ever got everything three-starred just because the quest never proced for them, no matter the time investment.

Suramar questline was there at the beginning, nothing like that ever repeated.

People remember the beginning of Legion, class halls, artifacts, and forget the legendary RNG, the horror of the added zones, and the fact that the playerbase steadily decreased from start to finish. Legion looks good next to BFA and WoD, but it looks horrible compared to pretty much all other expansions. At best on par with MoP and Cata.

[Forever_Learning]

I agree that Square Enix seems to prioritize casuals over hardcore players. I’ve known this ever since they nerfed crafting in 4.0 by adding Prudent Touch. The least they could do is make crafting more thought-intuitive. Instead of spamming Prudent/ Preparatory Touch every 2 seconds like a 7 year old.

What I do disagree with, is that casuals will sub longer. If anything, hardcore players will sub longer and still continue to do so. I am a hardcore crafter, I craft hundreds of pieces of endgame gear for all 8 of my servers on my data Center and earn several hundred gil a month. I have subbed since 2.x. And other players I know who are also hardcore have stayed subbed.

If anything, casual players will sub temporarily. Because they just don’t have the luxury of time.

The people saying there is a lack of end game content - they will tell you that your crafting isn't end-game content.
I understand what you are saying, but I want you to appreciate that they want more raid bosses, or raid-difficulty level dungeons.
They don't care about crafting, and adding more things to crafting, is irrelevant to them.
They view you as a casual because they view anything related to crafting as being a casual.

Your argument is actually consistent with people arguing there is end-game content.
The people protesting, because it's specific to dungeons and raids, consider what you do irrelevant and call it casual as a way to demean it.

[Klb600]

The people saying there is a lack of end game content - they will tell you that your crafting isn't end-game content.
I understand what you are saying, but I want you to appreciate that they want more raid bosses, or raid-difficulty level dungeons.
They don't care about crafting, and adding more things to crafting, is irrelevant to them.
They view you as a casual because they view anything related to crafting as being a casual.

Your argument is actually consistent with people arguing there is end-game content.
The people protesting, because it's specific to dungeons and raids, consider what you do irrelevant and call it casual as a way to demean it.

You are being deceitful and coming of as spiteful and bitter to someone trying engage in fruitful dialogue. Look at you trying to woo and convert this person to your cause with your us vs them mentality. You should be ashamed of yourself.

If you had took your fanboy shades off for a second and pay attention to the crux of this topic, no one is calling other activities as "irrelevant" The topic created is focused on discussion concerning a specific sector of the game and its quality-80LvL content for battle classes.

Her arguments is fair, whether it be casual or hardcore, is consistent with the crafting community sector and is a well noted point. Take your Condescending Tribalism elsewhere.

A good quote from the one of the "Hardcore" that you seem to loath soo much, maybe you could learn a few from him.

I think a lot of the issues are stemming from the fact that an us versus them mentality is pervasive from both sides. It doesn't need to be that way. SE has enough funds to hire additional resources to give hardcore players something extra, while still pumping out casual content. They already funnel the funds to other games, and this is confirmed. No reason for them not to allocate more to their golden goose(FFXIV).

[Lewtskie]

It's not a good quote though, it's a blissfully ignorant quote. Their "golden goose" provides more than they need to feed it. It's become a perfect model for them and they see absolutely no reason to change it unless called for.

Hate against the idea of 'us vs them' as much as you want, it won't go away. They want something that isn't being included. They don't want the thing that is; it's something that is challenging what they want out of the game. Getting what you want comes at a cost of someone else's wants because not every little thing can be implemented at once, altogether, for every person.

Even were it a large scale team with dedicated groups developing content, content will be staggered, and it won't always be some perfect 50/50 split of what you want and what someone else wants. One side is always going to get more of what they want than the other. And the side that has more people are going to be favored more because there are more to provide to, who in turn earn more revenue.

This all being on top of there was and always has been a specific demographic this game was created and catered for. If you're not under that demographic then you're immediately always going to be at a disadvantage to getting what you want.

[Saidosha]

That's odd, because FFXI satisfied my desires back when I was 18 and played 60+ hours a week. Sky, Sea, Einherjar, Limbus, Dynamis, Salvage, Assault, HNMS. Yet somehow, now when I have a full time job and can only devote 20 hours or so a week to this game, I blow through experts/extreme/savage within 2 months. This statement is a cop-out. But I guess a lot of people here don't remember or haven't experienced what the old MMOs were like and think it's just not possible to make enough content to satisfy 'hardcore' players. As is, they can't even satisfy the midcore.

FFXI was also generally a lot more harsh on the time gating, and in some cases, direct competition. Prior to Abyssea, I was personally contemplating quitting the game because I'd pretty much did all the things you listed to the degree I was satisfied with, and I deliberately started late in endgame around 2006 or so because I didn't really have it in me to put up with a lot of the early HNM drama. Perhaps the only content I never chose to chase was making a relic weapon, as for a long while it was literally doing Dynamis for the sake of one or two people in a group, while otherwise being a significant gil sink as an alternative for what I considered an insufficient benefit. Some would argue otherwise, certainly, and there was also denying some weapons were more LOL than others depending on favored job. A RDM trying to coax a group to get them an Excalibur would meet a lot more resistance than a DRK wanting an Apocalypse or Ragnarok, as a comparison.

But FFXI was a different beast, particular when it came to allowing gear swapping mid-combat. Frankly, it's a feature I'm glad XIV didn't embrace. What this usually led to was content having niche interest relative to the rewards offered, as opposed to being more generalized like a token system. Sure, the general idea might've been that if you helped others get what they wanted, they'd help you, but I imagine most anyone who really got into XI had times where when it was "their turn" that help was suddenly not available, your shell got quiet after asking, or people even arguing that shouldn't bother chasing certain things precisely because they weren't meta. What this commonly translated to was just irksome time sink, further if what you did want didn't have a decent drop rate and you had to do the herding cats dance repeatedly.

Perhaps the one system I'm sad XI eventually abandoned was the Magian Trials. Not that I was glad about stupid things like weather kills, but more that it offered bite-sized, often soloable content with a tangible reward at the end without being as all or nothing like relics were. I could easily see something like this adapted to XIV as a more midcore option, with all equipment slots given multiple tasks to eventually culminate in a pretty good item. I'd also personally love unique, ability augmenting materia to come from the process to give us better ways to customize and stylize our combat preferences. Or maybe something more like merits without being so insipid about category caps. In the end, I'll just stick to there being a giant open world out there that more could be done in, to make it feel more alive than just funneling people into yet more raids or dungeons.

[Klb600]

It's not a good quote though, it's a blissfully ignorant quote. Their "golden goose" provides more than they need to feed it. It's become a perfect model for them and they see absolutely no reason to change it unless called for.

Hate against the idea of 'us vs them' as much as you want, it won't go away. They want something that isn't being included. They don't want the thing that is; it's something that is challenging what they want out of the game. Getting what you want comes at a cost of someone else's wants because not every little thing can be implemented at once, altogether, for every person.

Even were it a large scale team with dedicated groups developing content, content will be staggered, and it won't always be some perfect 50/50 split of what you want and what someone else wants. One side is always going to get more of what they want than the other. And the side that has more people are going to be favored more because there are more to provide to, who in turn earn more revenue.

This all being on top of there was and always has been a specific demographic this game was created and catered for. If you're not under that demographic then you're immediately always going to be at a disadvantage to getting what you want.

Yes take that "golden goose" Quote completely out of context, what he is alluding too is the fact that resource is being allocated to other departments within square. We the players are not getting the return on the investment we made, so why shouldn't people speak up about it? and ok I get it its a business. but even so, Yoshi P himself has stated there is a lot of things that he would like too do with this game but he isn't given the amount of resources from higher up and a lot of his team and funds are reduced and allocated to other projects. Hence why this game is filled with a lot copy pasta content, you say its what works, but for how long will that be? You can only repackage the same content over and over again until things start too ware thin, but only the test of time will tell.

Also no one is asking for immediate change, nor are we asking for the games foundation to be pulled root and stem, and built from the ground. Topics like this has been a thing for many years on this forum and others like reddit, gamefaqs. discussing new ideas and implementation within the community is a big part of an MMO.


The people here on the other side straight up boast about having more content then they know what too even do with. When people brag about how they have more content then their monthly sub fee can keep up with, how is it insane or unrealistic to say "ok they seem set, is it possible to have more resource allocated to another sector?"

Yes this is a casual game,no one is demanding FFXIV become FFXI. You can have divergent content whilst still prevent detraction from the core audience.

[Avraym]

Really?

Where people who couldn't get an item were BENCHED simply to due to poor RNG, completely unrelated to their ability.

The introduction of massive titantforging everywhere, so you and your raid partner can have massively different item levels, even though you did the same content?

Where the reputation rewards were placed in a lootbox that had such a low chance of giving you the item that you do do the same quests forever, and never earn it?

The introduction of a new area, with weekly quests so barren that today they can all be done in a day, but with time gating, took place for players over the span of months, and in the process, delayed their ability to fly?

Argus - one of the most hated zones ever created; and the newly gained ability to fly - was disallowed?

Professions where progression was also based on RNG, so only something like 10% of miners ever got everything three-starred just because the quest never proced for them, no matter the time investment.

Suramar questline was there at the beginning, nothing like that ever repeated.

People remember the beginning of Legion, class halls, artifacts, and forget the legendary RNG, the horror of the added zones, and the fact that the playerbase steadily decreased from start to finish. Legion looks good next to BFA and WoD, but it looks horrible compared to pretty much all other expansions. At best on par with MoP and Cata.

Obviously you're not a fan of RNG and that''s fine.

On par with MoP and Cata however? That's a very brave comparison and one I've never heard. Most people will disagree.

You're absolutely nitpicking the things you didn't like disregarding all the good stuff.

Do you know how ridiculous it sounds to say "Yeah but the playerbase steadily decreased from start to finish for the expansionnnn". Wow gee its almost like players play a game less that they've completed towards the end. I've never heard of players unsubbing towards the end of an expansion. Oh never.

Please - this is just senseless bashing.

[Nariel]

You know what FFXIV should avoid ? Being another WoW clone.

Another problem by expecting even more end-game outside of the fact the staff don't have the ressources or would have to drain from other things people expect is who will do it. How much ressources it will cost for how many player to actualy bother with it. Keep in mind it have to worth it.


And please, don't be childish, higher up detainging the key for more budget couldn't give less of a sh*t of what happen on the forum, they want number to roll up and use as much money as they can on other project that will bring far more money than make a little portion of a MMO playerbase occupied two more weeks for close to no yield.

I'd be glad we had even more content, but I'd rather not sacrifice even more of what I have fun with for even more things I won't even bother touch. Gosh, we have already less and less new dungeon every patch for the sake of "hard" trash niche grind.

[Lewtskie]

Yes take that "golden goose" Quote completely out of context, what he is alluding too is the fact that resource is being allocated to other departments within square. We the players are not getting the return on the investment we made, so why shouldn't people speak up about it? and ok I get it its a business. but even so, Yoshi P himself has stated there is a lot of things that he would like too do with this game but he isn't given the amount of resources from higher up and a lot of his team and funds are reduced and allocated to other projects. Hence why this game is filled with a lot copy pasta content, you say its what works, but for how long will that be? You can only repackage the same content over and over again until things start too ware thin, but only the test of time will tell.

I replied to the comment to the extent of the context you gave. I'm not blind, I read what he said and I know that their funding goes into other projects at SE. And I gave you the reason why they won't funnel more money back into the game: because it does indeed work. People been speaking up about it for years, it's nothing new, and they'll keep speaking up about it. Yoshi will also keep pushing to get more for the game, this won't change. The investment into XIV has been at an all-time high in regard to Shadowbringers in terms of guest development, media advertising and promotion. SE can and will invest more when they see it necessary, but that's always going to be at odds with us because we're always gonna want more than what they care to offer. Once come the time when this game isn't funneling back as much as it has been and been worn down, SE will likely scrap it and move to the next thing. This has been what XIV has been for them since ARR. ARR itself was just a chance at breaking even at a destructive loss that was 1.0, but just by chance proved more successful than they thought, but it's not going to be their flagship. Even XI, as successful as it was, was never a flagship. Some decent advertisement and support, sure, but it was never part of their "main" line-up.

Also no one is asking for immediate change, nor are we asking for the games foundation to be pulled root and stem, and built from the ground. Topics like this has been a thing for many years on this forum and others like reddit, gamefaqs. discussing new ideas and implementation within the community is a big part of an MMO.

I don't know where this came from. I never insinuated immediate change and the fact people been going at this for years is obvious, so I don't know what sort of response you want from this.

The people here on the other side straight up boast about having more content then they know what too even do with. When people brag about how they have more content then their monthly sub fee can keep up with, how is it insane or unrealistic to say "ok they seem set, is it possible to have more resource allocated to another sector?"

That sounds like an exaggeration; on their part, not yours. If anyone legitimately says they have too much content to do, then they came in late and haven't been playing up to date. This is for any side of the -core spectrum. And this is confidently saying this knowing this game is catered to people with limited time to play each day/week. And anyone coming in late is expected to have a large backlog. Current content though, not a chance.

Yes this is a casual game,no one is demanding FFXIV become FFXI. You can have divergent content whilst still prevent detraction from the core audience.

Again, didn't suggest it was or were or needs to be. you CAN have divergent content, yes, buuuut like I said, it's not going to be at an even split and one form of content is going to get more support each patch then another. Someone, somewhere is always going to be dissatisfied with a patch; whether the same person or a different one, because the skew of content will always be different.

[Vercinotrix]

Yes take that "golden goose" Quote completely out of context, what he is alluding too is the fact that resource is being allocated to other departments within square. We the players are not getting the return on the investment we made, so why shouldn't people speak up about it? and ok I get it its a business. but even so, Yoshi P himself has stated there is a lot of things that he would like too do with this game but he isn't given the amount of resources from higher up and a lot of his team and funds are reduced and allocated to other projects.

Honestly, putting aside the "casual vs hardcore" and the rest of this thread for a moment, everyone who plays and loves XIV should be upset at this. Not to say I don't want to play other games, but it's actually infuriating this game could have a lot more to it but just doesn't thanks to the other departments leeching. inb4 "but its not yoshi's money its squares money!!! AND ITS OKAY BECAUSE ITS GOING TO 7 REMASTER!!!! 7 IS BEST!!!"

Yeah, nah. Don't get me wrong, I love FFXIV how it currently is. But just the fact we could have more overall content for every group/demographic and don't because FFXIV is just being given the bare minimum to function instead of a decent amount to grow for its entire player base is downright disrespectful imo. I can almost guarantee there'd be a lot bigger fuss from this community if the game siphoning from XIV was an XIII remaster instead. Maybe without VII's legacy shrouding the problems with it, we'd be able to make enough noise to change things.