Lack of End Game Content

[ElciaDeiLinus]

Why aren't raiders allowed to want something from this game too, without being told to 'go back to WoW'? I'm not trying to hamper your casual gameplay experience, but there is currently no MMO I feel I can go to at the moment where I can have raids that will keep me occupied. This Savage raid thing will only be a 2 month window before it fizzles out for me. The 24 man raid won't even last a week for me. FFXI was my MMO, but they destroyed it with Abyssea. Before that, I always had challenging content to do. Now, there is nowhere to go. The casual MMORPG has taken over the market, and left no room for those who enjoy challenges. We were usurped by the casual crowd, and we get shot down for wanting a shadow of the former challenging content we had.

Well what would you want- them to put 10% of their development time into creating raids that only 1% or less of the community will do? I see a lot of raiders complaining that they aren't getting more development time, and then being mad that players who like other types of content aren't happily saying 'yes SE, please do less for us and more for them'.

The sheer amount of cockiness as you look down on players that don't have time or the skill or the organized group to do 1% challenge content is likely a big part of why, for the last decade plus that I've played MMOs at least- there's always this division.

But no, there is nothing wrong with hardcores and raiders wanting more content- there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. But, you also need to realize there is nothing wrong with casual players wanting more or at least the same level of content- and casual players aren't stupid, despite how raiders tend to treat them, they realize that development resources are limited and if something gets more attention, something else gets less attention. Most casuals have played enough MMOs by now to fully realize that.

So again- there's nothing wrong with you asking for more of something you like, but stop with the pity party when other players say they want resources to go to something they like more than raids.

[ElciaDeiLinus]

Its no use lol.....this thread literally confirmed my worst fears. The tribe has spoken Casual themepark content is king. No point in continuing to beat a dead horse $$$ talks...always has always will

Yeah, it's pretty awful that people want content that they enjoy and are capable of doing- how dare they.

[Zabuza]

Well what would you want- them to put 10% of their development time into creating raids that only 1% or less of the community will do? I see a lot of raiders complaining that they aren't getting more development time, and then being mad that players who like other types of content aren't happily saying 'yes SE, please do less for us and more for them'.

The sheer amount of cockiness as you look down on players that don't have time or the skill or the organized group to do 1% challenge content is likely a big part of why, for the last decade plus that I've played MMOs at least- there's always this division.

But no, there is nothing wrong with hardcores and raiders wanting more content- there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. But, you also need to realize there is nothing wrong with casual players wanting more or at least the same level of content- and casual players aren't stupid, despite how raiders tend to treat them, they realize that development resources are limited and if something gets more attention, something else gets less attention. Most casuals have played enough MMOs by now to fully realize that.

So again- there's nothing wrong with you asking for more of something you like, but stop with the pity party when other players say they want resources to go to something they like more than raids.

The same level of content? Casuals have far more content to do than raiders by a long shot.

SE has made plenty of money off of this game. There is no excuse for having the very same amount of challenging battle content as 4 years ago. Not all raiders look down on casual players. Me stating many things in this game are easy for me is not looking down on you at all. I'm sure there's something else in life that would be simple for you but difficult for me. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses...I've already said twice that I'm not looking to cripple the casual player's gameplay experiences in any way. Yet a lot of the casual crowd, instead of simply not caring that raiders are asking for more content, are actively against raiders getting more content. Are you so opposed to us having fun?

[Vahlnir]

Yeah, it's pretty awful that people want content that they enjoy and are capable of doing- how dare they.

Casual players make up a pretty good sized chunk of the player base, so...obviously they are going to cater more to the audience that pays better. But yeah, hardcore players obviously do deserve content just for them, and they do get it...just not as frequently as they might prefer. And I understand the frustration. But it doesn't need to turn into an "us vs them" scenario like some people are trying to make it. (you know, like the person you quoted)

[MonteCristo]

The same level of content? Casuals have far more content to do than raiders by a long shot.

SE has made plenty of money off of this game. There is no excuse for having the very same amount of challenging battle content as 4 years ago. Not all raiders look down on casual players. Me stating many things in this game are easy for me is not looking down on you at all. I'm sure there's something else in life that would be simple for you but difficult for me. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses...I've already said twice that I'm not looking to cripple the casual player's gameplay experiences in any way. Yet a lot of the casual crowd, instead of simply not caring that raiders are asking for more content, are actively against raiders getting more content. Are you so opposed to us having fun?

By the gods...this man truly gets it /salute sir

[Klb600]

The same level of content? Casuals have far more content to do than raiders by a long shot.

SE has made plenty of money off of this game. There is no excuse for having the very same amount of challenging battle content as 4 years ago. Not all raiders look down on casual players. Me stating many things in this game are easy for me is not looking down on you at all. I'm sure there's something else in life that would be simple for you but difficult for me. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses...I've already said twice that I'm not looking to cripple the casual player's gameplay experiences in any way. Yet a lot of the casual crowd, instead of simply not caring that raiders are asking for more content, are actively against raiders getting more content. Are you so opposed to us having fun?

This exactly. Its a trend here whenever the hardcore crowd ask for a little more or god forbid anyone suggests anything that deviates from the formula in any way, the hivemind of this forum is quick too come in and shut you down.

Its interesting because if you read the comments, the casual crowd go on and on about how they are never running out things to do. If that is the case then they seem set. why is it that square shouldn't allocate a little bit of resources to the Hardcore who want a bit more, if there is an abundance of content already keeping the casual crowd busy and they are quote "Never running out of things to do?"

[Zabuza]

By the gods...this man truly gets it /salute sir

Thanks. I think a lot of the issues are stemming from the fact that an us versus them mentality is pervasive from both sides. It doesn't need to be that way. SE has enough funds to hire additional resources to give hardcore players something extra, while still pumping out casual content. They already funnel the funds to other games, and this is confirmed. No reason for them not to allocate more to their golden goose(FFXIV).

This exactly. Its a trend here whenever the hardcore crowd ask for a little more or god forbid anyone suggests anything that deviates from the formula in any way, the hivemind of this forum is quick too come in and shut you down.

Its interesting because if you read the comments, the casual crowd go on and on about how they are never running out things to do. If that is the case then they seem set. why is it that square shouldn't allocate a little bit of resources to the Hardcore who want a bit more, if there is an abundance of content already keeping the casual crowd busy and they are quote "Never running out of things to do?"

Good point.

[Catwho]

I guess my problem understanding this is - when Savage comes out, and people are doing the world first race, and it takes the rest of the hardcore but non-wf race groups a full month to get through it - at which point is it enough? Even the hardcore groups only give it about a week of serious pushing to clear because after that they need to go to work, and the dance has largely been figured out and it becomes a matter of optimizing. Any more of that and it becomes content that few people have the time and resources to play.

Or do you mean more midcore endgame content, ala the 24 man raids that will drop in patch 5.1? Because honestly I can agree with that. Their attempts at including this, via Diadem and Eureka, have so far kind of fallen flat. This area definitely needs more work and maybe one of these expansion they will find something that is a challenge without requiring 16 hours of brutal gameplay to enjoy.

"End game" is such a broad concept that you need to be clear what you are actually asking for. The casuals, myself included, make our own challenges, and struggle to understand why anyone could possible get bored.

[ElciaDeiLinus]

Its interesting because if you read the comments, the casual crowd go on and on about how they are never running out things to do. If that is the case then they seem set. why is it that square shouldn't allocate a little bit of resources to the Hardcore who want a bit more, if there is an abundance of content already keeping the casual crowd busy and they are quote "Never running out of things to do?"

Everything available to casuals is available to more hardcore players too- even casual players who will eventually do the raid content, even if patches after release. When you have people saying '15 hours a week is super casual', then of course it's going to take a patch for them to do the same amount of content that someone who is super hardcore, which I assume means 40+ hours a week, can do in a third of a patch or less.

And yeah, casuals do have an abundance of things to do a few weeks into a new xpac.

But at least you're willing to admit that yes, putting resources into hardcore content would take from casual content. To someone who wants that content, of course that seems fine- but you need to understand that for players that feel like they get a good amount of content each xpac- enough to keep them busy, while not so much that they feel they will forever be well behind (such as how I feel about azerite grinding)- for them, how can you expect them to be fine with having resources pulled from what they like to support things they don't?

And please don't act like raiders don't do the same thing- WotLK in WoW had some of the best raids they'd done, excellent hardcore content- but it also was the birth of casual raiding, and meaningful casual endgame content. In that case it didn't even take from the raid content since ICC and Ulduar were fantastic. But, it meant casuals were getting something other than... well, rep grinding and dungeons for vastly inferior gear was pretty much the only endgame before then for casuals.

You keep complaining about a hivemind, as if players wanting something different from you makes their opinion invalid. It's like nothing has changed- you're saying casuals 'shut you down', but by degrading the opinions of anyone else to 'hivemind' you're doing exactly that yourself, shutting down different desires in the game as nothing more than mindless droning, like casuals aren't at all important.

And it isn't like there is no hardcore content- there are savages, extremes, raids, etc... and there's been clear attempts at making alternative hardcore content like BA.

And you can say that raiders don't look down on casual players- but the problem is that the way hardcores and raiders talk about casuals is very hard to interpret any other way. Even the way you constantly degrade casuals' opinions and values in the game to 'mindless hivemind' makes it abundantly obvious there's huge disdain for them.

[ToniRomo]

I haven't played much since I beat the MSQ. There's not much to do. I'm just slowly leveling up another job currently. I do not do extreme raids so the future does not look bright. The game could really use some interesting, repeatable content. Everything feels stale now.

I enjoyed Frontlines and building relics in HW. They killed that with Stormblood with those dumb vehicle PVP maps and Eureka (bleh). I am waiting to see what they do with PVP and relics in this expansion since they haven't really said anything...

Dev team is probably happy though. They have a lot of people like me I imagine who pay each month even if we don't log in a ton. It's cheap. Then there's the savage raiders. And then the horde of people who are happy to stand around town as cat people and emote at each other all day.