Lack of End Game Content

[SerLuke]

This games end game is just 4 bosses. Why can’t we have just a tiny bit of Horizontal progression. Why can’t we make difficult Deep Dungeon for example drop relevant end game gear. Why does it only have to come from savage. Can’t we get difficult things elsewhere. Or maybe make a extremely tough Gold Saucer Game, that drop relevant Gloves or something. You can save on resources and make easier versions of the same thing for people not interested in End Game.

To be fair at time of release the weapons you could get were of relevant ilvl and you still get gear tomes or at least they did before, I haven’t checked and see if you get lvl 80 tomes if running with a lvl 80 job

[Critical-Limit]

To be fair at time of release the weapons you could get were of relevant ilvl and you still get gear tomes or at least they did before, I haven’t checked and see if you get lvl 80 tomes if running with a lvl 80 job

Thanks I should have said savage tier difficulty elsewhere for same Tier rewards cuz yes it’s relevant level. But if your objective is bis. That’s something you could skip and it’s relevance is short lived. Cuz there is already something better

If your talking tomes. That’s just waiting til catch-up patch to equal raid gear. Which isn’t fun cuz it’s mostly just spamming casual content.

[Klb600]

If you feel I misinterpreted you, fine, but even with this statement you are incorrect.

They've made the focus be entirely the gear treadmill, and they set out the path that a person should take to get that gear.

Lol is this a joke? Please enlighten me how the gear treadmill isn't anymore prevalent here? What you are now arguing is which is more grindy within the End Game Hardcore Ecosystem.
Whether you enjoy the side content of WoW or not, they still exist just like they do in FFXIV. WoW has always been a Raid centric game and that's what most of the players look too in terms of progression. Saying that the developers "are much more controlling and manipulative with its players", when End game raid progression is what most WoW players look for and actively partake in, is disingenuous.

you have many many many people doing things, that they don't enjoy, just for the eventual carrot down the road.

You mean Like how many people are running the same dungeons over and over again just, farming the same recycled tomes just too have relevant gear, because FFXIV has a system where the top gear is made irrelevant every 2-3 months? You think I do duty roulettes for fun? No I do it in order to optimize my time Vs reward. And by no means am I claiming that I don't fully enjoy FFXIV, but it has its aspects of "things you will have to do even if you don't enjoy"

Recently, for example, they made something that is valuable for PvE, be something you get from PvP.

Another important aspect of WoWs end game is PvP. Doesn't sound too ludicrous too make one append the other. Chocobo racing isn't an integral part of the endgame progression...Irrelevant example

On top of that, they put in so many different timers and time-gate various things, designed to make logging in every day for 1-2 hours and doing very specific things be the most optimal way to play. So, no one is really playing the game, they are just egg timing it (go in, do x, log out), next day (go in, do x, log out), and so on.


You mean like that very thing they do in FFXIV for progression?

Professions are virtually worthless because they ensure people are unable to craft anything too good for raiding as then players could avoid some things.

Again the very same thing they do in this game....

Player agency itself has been completely removed to ensure time and effort won't lead to a player having an advantage over others.

And Yet another thing they do in this very game....

For all these reasons, the themepark mentality is much stronger in FF14.

Yeah no it isn't, you don't get too just define your own benchmark and definition for what is "much more Theme park" and roll with it. The available rides in WOW are there just like they are for FFXIV, however you choose to measure how "enjoyable" these rides are is besides the point. They are however still there.

[ErryK]

BA was one end game content that I enjoyed doing almost on a daily basis. The place was dangerous and it was fun having 56 people coordinate how to tackle the bosses there. I think they should make more dungeons with that style (not the horrid entry conditions).

I'd love to see something like BA with replay-ability value, cuz that stuff had TONS of replay-ability value for me. Just... don't lock the relic weapon behind it, just put a mount like Ozma or something like that that's collectible, titles don't do much.

[Melichoir]

Theyre giving us NG+ so you can replay the game if you want (which I plan on doing). Beyond that, they charged me $60 for the xpac. I played the MSQ, enjoyed it thoroughly. I still have classes to level, side quests to do, lore to enjoy. I dunno about other people but there is still a ton to do, so I dont understand the "There's not enough content." I suppose if your powering through everything, not reading anything, or spending 8+ hours a day in game, yeah there's not gonna be enough. But youre gonna have to show me a game who can keep up with that rate of consumption.

I think people need to diversify their play, btw. A lot of people who get bored quick are people who only consume this game. I dont play just FFXIV, so Ive personally never run into the burn out.

[snarkomatic]

This games end game is just 4 bosses. Why can’t we have just a tiny bit of Horizontal progression. Why can’t we make difficult Deep Dungeon for example drop relevant end game gear. Why does it only have to come from savage. Can’t we get difficult things elsewhere. Or maybe make a extremely tough Gold Saucer Game, that drop relevant Gloves or something. You can save on resources and make easier versions of the same thing for people not interested in End Game.

This is one thing I like a lot about ESO. (I am sort of balancing play between that and this right now; I keep putting XIV down, then returning to it, because I can't not apparently? Anyway.) The game itself has a lot of flaws, most noticeably when it comes to actual gameplay soundness, but having grown up on WoW it still amazes me how relevant all of the content in ESO feels. I'm up at max level, have done all the content through the latest expansion, but still find myself returning to old base-game dungeons to pick up gear sets I have not yet completed for testing on a new build. And, as you level, all gear drops at your level regardless of when the content was initially unlocked -- so I get the same Generic Set #9 every run, but it drops in relevant stats at level 10, level 30, level 50, and beyond. I was kinda disappointed to discover XIV's leveling roulette dumps you into old dungeons, but actually scales you down, and does not scale rewards up.

ESO also allows you to achievement-hunt at max level in harder versions of the dungeons you first did while leveling. Three different achievements per dungeon, plus a special gear set unique only to the hard-mode version.

I don't think these elements need a 1:1 exact-copy of themselves in XIV (or any game), but the general concept (horizontal prog. to keep old content relevant) is a solid one that has proven to keep most of the endgame players with whom I keep company very busy and very engaged with the game for years on end.

[Zabuza]

Back in ARR, there were also people saying 'no content!' or 'need more raids!' and the reaction to them, curiously, is the same one people give now:

-Ok, sorry you aren't happy, you can go play something else, I'm happy so I am going to keep playing

I remember strongly one poster who said 'It's ok, let them go, the game will cater to those who enjoy it and remain'

At the time, I thought it meant FF would become a very niche game, small population game, due to this focus on a certain group of players.

The opposite has happened - the game keeps growing and growing, where now people see FF14, ESO, and WoW as the big three MMOs on the market, and shadowbringers maybe just pushed FF to the top. Point being, this game has a steady growing population that enjoys the game, it's format, and how things are done.

Nevertheless expansions launch, and maybe every patch, there is someone who says 'I'm not happy'.

How do expect this ever growing population to respond considering they have been playing and enjoying it, while subs continue to grow?

'ok, guess it's not for you, I'm happy, I,m gonna keep playing, hope you find something you like'

I was scared about this attitude back in ARR, but now, six years later, it's proven to be a winning formula.

When people say to you 'FF is different from MMOs', what they are also saying to you 'and that's why I like it'

Thus, when people say things like 'gee, I wish this MMO was more like X', and they go ' that's not FF, you should find something'

They probably aren't trying to be insulting, they probably think they are being helpful and giving you good advice.

Unlike the WoW forums, where they will try to convince you that you are wrong, and maybe work overtime to convince you why you should stay.

People here are pretty mature, they don't sense the need that they need to convince you if you like something.

It's as if you are complaining at McDonalds, and they recommend you try Burger King, but you say 'No, I want McDonalds to change instead!'

How do you expect the people who enjoy McDonalds to react? They likely dont want it to change and would prefer you just find what you enjoy.

My recommendation to you: Classic WoW

Thanks for basically proving my point. While it may be said in a mature and not condescending manner, the message is basically that if I like having raids, I should just play WoW and not voice my opinion in trying to improve the raid scene in this game, because it isn't going to happen. Currently, I don't like WoW at all, and like FF but not the lack of challenging content. I've been unsubbed for probably over half the time between Heavensward to now because I blow through the challenging stuff(minus Ultimate I don't have a dedicated static) and have nothing left to stimulate me. People ask for stuff on this forum that they believe will make the game better all the time. Well, this is what I'm asking for — more difficult battle content than what we have gotten the past 4 years. This system of farming two snoozefest expert dungeons and two ex primals that I can do in my sleep for tomes and totems gets old. This is not to denote anyone else's skill level, everyone has their own pace. But for me, it is like Satasha, as one person stated. No change at all since Heavensward, because you guys eat it up. They give us reskinned primal fights for the raids and you guys cheer. Why would the dev team try to improve when they know they can dish out anything for challenging battle content and you'll be satisfied?

Why aren't raiders allowed to want something from this game too, without being told to 'go back to WoW'? I'm not trying to hamper your casual gameplay experience, but there is currently no MMO I feel I can go to at the moment where I can have raids that will keep me occupied. This Savage raid thing will only be a 2 month window before it fizzles out for me. The 24 man raid won't even last a week for me. FFXI was my MMO, but they destroyed it with Abyssea. Before that, I always had challenging content to do. Now, there is nowhere to go. The casual MMORPG has taken over the market, and left no room for those who enjoy challenges. We were usurped by the casual crowd, and we get shot down for wanting a shadow of the former challenging content we had.

[MonteCristo]

To be honest....They should rename this glamour fantasy 14 and allow all the themepark-carebear/level a million classes(for no reason but just level another one after you cap)/collect alot of pointless items type content to run wild.

Alot of this mess isnt even true final fantasy other than the name, likenesses, and settings. Real FF heads know this to be true.....say what you want be mad w/e but deep down its the truth. At this point its my loyalty to the brand that keeps me subbed in hopes "real content" will be added at some point especially given the amount time ive invested....but until then alot of this is soft and deep down i know some understand what im truly saying.

[Eisenhower]

Why aren't raiders allowed to want something from this game too, without being told to 'go back to WoW'?

I've said it once and I'll say it again: because the complaint put out there is rarely "I would like more raids" - it's "There's nothing for me to do". For the person making the statement, both phrases point towards the same problem, but...

When someone states "I would like more X", be it hardcore raids, crafting, glamour, cake, etc. it's quite easy for other people to read it and think "Yeah, more of X would be nice."

When someone states "I have nothing to do", a reader may be compelled to reply "Try doing Y". But since the player in question has no interest of things outside of X, the conversation devolves into a back and forth of suggestions and rejections which ends up being more and more frustrating. It's pretty easy to see how that leads to "Go back to <game>".

[MonteCristo]

Thanks for basically proving my point. While it may be said in a mature and not condescending manner, the message is basically that if I like having raids, I should just play WoW and not voice my opinion in trying to improve the raid scene in this game, because it isn't going to happen. Currently, I don't like WoW at all, and like FF but not the lack of challenging content. I've been unsubbed for probably over half the time between Heavensward to now because I blow through the challenging stuff(minus Ultimate I don't have a dedicated static) and have nothing left to stimulate me. People ask for stuff on this forum that they believe will make the game better all the time. Well, this is what I'm asking for — more difficult battle content than what we have gotten the past 4 years. This system of farming two snoozefest expert dungeons and two ex primals that I can do in my sleep for tomes and totems gets old. This is not to denote anyone else's skill level, everyone has their own pace. But for me, it is like Satasha, as one person stated. No change at all since Heavensward, because you guys eat it up. They give us reskinned primal fights for the raids and you guys cheer. Why would the dev team try to improve when they know they can dish out anything for challenging battle content and you'll be satisfied?

Why aren't raiders allowed to want something from this game too, without being told to 'go back to WoW'? I'm not trying to hamper your casual gameplay experience, but there is currently no MMO I feel I can go to at the moment where I can have raids that will keep me occupied. This Savage raid thing will only be a 2 month window before it fizzles out for me. The 24 man raid won't even last a week for me. FFXI was my MMO, but they destroyed it with Abyssea. Before that, I always had challenging content to do. Now, there is nowhere to go. The casual MMORPG has taken over the market, and left no room for those who enjoy challenges. We were usurped by the casual crowd, and we get shot down for wanting a shadow of the former challenging content we had.

Its no use lol.....this thread literally confirmed my worst fears. The tribe has spoken Casual themepark content is king. No point in continuing to beat a dead horse $$$ talks...always has always will