Lack of End Game Content

[ShinShimon]

Limitless gameplay tends to involve huge grinds and crapshoot gearing processes. These processes would need to provide relevant rewards, meaning it will conflict with the existing systems that provide these rewards.

I'd rather have weekly tomestones and calendar-xharted gear progression tham Titanforging, anyday. If FF14's endless side content doesn't do it for you, play another game between patches. There's no reason an MMO has to be endlessly replayable for everyone.

[Kaylessa]

well there are other things to do than the main story, like crafting/gathering, doing fates to buy the mount speed up for faster gathering, never doing dungeons without a roulette bonus and instead spending your time more wisely by doing other things while waiting for the daily resets.

If you're doing things other than the main story then you're not doing the main story. When people talk about the length of the main story, crafting, fates, and casual sauntering around generally aren't included

[DynnDiablos]

There's so much to do in this game it is nearly endless. I've been playing since ARR in 2013 and still finding things I missed from ARR, HW and SB to go back and do.

[Zabuza]

There's so much to do in this game it is nearly endless. I've been playing since ARR in 2013 and still finding things I missed from ARR, HW and SB to go back and do.

That's fine and more power to you, but some of us don't find enjoyment out of trying to get a 16th job to level cap, or playing around with glamour. Some of us mainly get enjoyment out of having challenging content to do. Which right now, Savage and Ultimate are the only challenging things in the game. Everything else got made easier because of casuals complaining. It is as if they want challenge-seekers gone from this game.

You know, I had a snarky reply to all of the people wanting nu-WoW systems put into FF, but I'll actually answer the question honestly.

At this point, I honestly have more than enough content to do and I don't even plan on doing savage (would like to, but that's a whole rant instead of a quick response).

There's many people like this, who just have the thought process of 'well I'm satisfied, so who cares what the raiders want?' Again, I don't have any issue with casual players getting more content. It improves the health of this game. Why, then, do many casual players have this issue with raiders wanting stuff that actually keeps them around? What if I don't want to play only 2 months out of every 6, and then have to unsub because there is no more savage-like content? Well, too bad for me I guess, right? Casual crowd has what they want so who cares about the raiders amirite?

[Eisenhower]

That's fine and more power to you, but some of us don't find enjoyment out of trying to get a 16th job to level cap, or playing around with glamour. Some of us mainly get enjoyment out of having challenging content to do. Which right now, Savage and Ultimate are the only challenging things in the game. Everything else got made easier because of casuals complaining. It is as if they want challenge-seekers gone from this game.

There's many people like this, who just have the thought process of 'well I'm satisfied, so who cares what the raiders want?' Again, I don't have any issue with casual players getting more content. It improves the health of this game. Why, then, do many casual players have this issue with raiders wanting stuff that actually keeps them around? What if I don't want to play only 2 months out of every 6, and then have to unsub because there is no more savage-like content? Well, too bad for me I guess, right? Casual crowd has what they want so who cares about the raiders amirite?

Because these threads are always verbose ways of re-dressing "one aspect being lacking" to "all aspects being lacking". To some players the "endgame" isn't savage or ultimate raiding, yet those that do focus on savage and ultimate can't help but put that level of raiding as the end-all-be-all goal of this game. I won't disparage them further, however, as this re-dressing and phrasing of "there's no endgame" is probably more efficient at stirring things up on the forums than the claim of "we would like more savage-difficulty content".

The very concept of having to stay on the treadmill perpetually is something SQEX has chosen to avoid - explicitly. If the game doesn't suit your needs, then vote with your wallet. You don't owe the game your time or attention. Find enjoyment elsewhere.

[Forever_Learning]

And where exactly do I argue against that? Please get over yourself I am not misinterpreting the definition of either. Also I did not give the definition of anything, nor am I making the claims that you are asserting. The poster I replied to claimed that endgame of wow is set by the developers and FFXIV isn't, which by both titles being theme park MMO's is a completely ludicrous assertion to make, How the hell is FFXIV's endgame more "set by the player" then WoW's when both have the similar endgame structure, being that they are theme park MMO's?

"You are doing the equivalent of telling someone only the roller coasters matter at a theme park, the rest of the park is worthless"



And when exactly did I say anything of the like?

If you feel I misinterpreted you, fine, but even with this statement you are incorrect.

The developers of WoW are much more controlling and manipulative with its players.

They've made the focus be entirely the gear treadmill, and they set out the path that a person should take to get that gear.

As a result, you have many many many people doing things, that they don't enjoy, just for the eventual carrot down the road.

They've created a system where if you want to be a top raider, you must engage in all sorts of content that you may usually avoid.

Recently, for example, they made something that is valuable for PvE, be something you get from PvP.

Imagine if they made the best chest piece for your job be a reward from Chocobo racing, or your best ring came from being top rep with a beast tribe.

On top of that, they put in so many different timers and time-gate various things, designed to make logging in every day for 1-2 hours and doing very specific things be the most optimal way to play. So, no one is really playing the game, they are just egg timing it (go in, do x, log out), next day (go in, do x, log out), and so on.

Raiders in WoW constantly feel forced to engage in activities they don't want to do.

One of the most hated pieces of content is warfronts, but people will do them just because the gear rewards are so inflated.

People could do Mythic+ up to say level 20, but 99% stop at level 10 because that's where the gear rewards stop.

Ain't too many people doing them just for the challenge or fun.

Professions are virtually worthless because they ensure people are unable to craft anything too good for raiding as then players could avoid some things.

Player agency itself has been completely removed to ensure time and effort won't lead to a player having an advantage over others.

***
There is a reason people are leaving in droves and it's often because they are sick of blizzard telling them how they should play the game (common quote)

For all these reasons, the themepark mentality is much stronger in FF14.

[Vercinotrix]

There's many people like this, who just have the thought process of 'well I'm satisfied, so who cares what the raiders want?' Again, I don't have any issue with casual players getting more content. It improves the health of this game. Why, then, do many casual players have this issue with raiders wanting stuff that actually keeps them around? What if I don't want to play only 2 months out of every 6, and then have to unsub because there is no more savage-like content? Well, too bad for me I guess, right? Casual crowd has what they want so who cares about the raiders amirite?

My post doesn't have that mentality in it. At all. I addressed the question the OP and others proposed, am I personally satisfied with the amount of content in the game. Funny enough you saw that post but didn't see the one the page after where I said I wish the dev team had the resources to expand on all of the content in the game for every community. Because that's ultimately what I do want.

To say my thought process is 'well I'm satisfied, so who cares what the raiders want?' is disingenuous. If you're talking about wanting WoW's mythic+ system or the 20 different difficulty settings for dungeons and the 5 for raids, then sure I definitely have a problem. That doesn't come from a place as a casual upset at hard content, that comes from a place of a longtime raid leader absolutely disgusted at where modern raid and pve culture is from players to the devs.

[Kaylessa]

Welp, it seems someone doxed Scottzone's home address and sent him a death threat also. So for the people who doubted whether Lazy Peon received death threats yes, like most gaming communities, there is a small section of fans who are rabid and outright disgusting in their sick devotion to their favorite video game. This community isn't immune from that.

[Forever_Learning]

Savage and Ultimate are the only challenging things in the game. Everything else got made easier because of casuals complaining. It is as if they want challenge-seekers gone from this game.

There's many people like this, who just have the thought process of 'well I'm satisfied, so who cares what the raiders want?' Again, I don't have any issue with casual players getting more content. It improves the health of this game. Why, then, do many casual players have this issue with raiders wanting stuff that actually keeps them around? What if I don't want to play only 2 months out of every 6, and then have to unsub because there is no more savage-like content? Well, too bad for me I guess, right? Casual crowd has what they want so who cares about the raiders amirite?

Back in ARR, there were also people saying 'no content!' or 'need more raids!' and the reaction to them, curiously, is the same one people give now:

-Ok, sorry you aren't happy, you can go play something else, I'm happy so I am going to keep playing

I remember strongly one poster who said 'It's ok, let them go, the game will cater to those who enjoy it and remain'

At the time, I thought it meant FF would become a very niche game, small population game, due to this focus on a certain group of players.

The opposite has happened - the game keeps growing and growing, where now people see FF14, ESO, and WoW as the big three MMOs on the market, and shadowbringers maybe just pushed FF to the top. Point being, this game has a steady growing population that enjoys the game, it's format, and how things are done.

Nevertheless expansions launch, and maybe every patch, there is someone who says 'I'm not happy'.

How do expect this ever growing population to respond considering they have been playing and enjoying it, while subs continue to grow?

'ok, guess it's not for you, I'm happy, I,m gonna keep playing, hope you find something you like'

I was scared about this attitude back in ARR, but now, six years later, it's proven to be a winning formula.

When people say to you 'FF is different from MMOs', what they are also saying to you 'and that's why I like it'

Thus, when people say things like 'gee, I wish this MMO was more like X', and they go ' that's not FF, you should find something'

They probably aren't trying to be insulting, they probably think they are being helpful and giving you good advice.

Unlike the WoW forums, where they will try to convince you that you are wrong, and maybe work overtime to convince you why you should stay.

People here are pretty mature, they don't sense the need that they need to convince you if you like something.

It's as if you are complaining at McDonalds, and they recommend you try Burger King, but you say 'No, I want McDonalds to change instead!'

How do you expect the people who enjoy McDonalds to react? They likely dont want it to change and would prefer you just find what you enjoy.

My recommendation to you: Classic WoW

[Nixxe]

Wow, talking about not enough endgame content and then coming up with WoW as an example which always goes into a one-year content drought before the next expansion hits.

Of course, you can't run out of things to do in WoW simply because they add a shit ton of time gating stuff, for example farming azerite to max level is completely pointless because everything you boringly grinded for 6 months takes you like a week after catchup mechanics come into place.

WoW goes a year without adding any major content, but that's not the same as not having things to do.

Also, I quit playing WoW before BfA came out. Suffice it to say I'm not referring to post-MoP WoW, which has been a gradually increasing dumpster fire since WoD dropped outside of a few bright spots in Legion.