Lack of End Game Content

[MonteCristo]

FFXI CoP endgame content:
Dynamis - Valkrum
Dynamis - Buburimu
Dynamis - Qufim
Dynamis - Tavnazia
Several Limbus Areas
Jailer of Prudence
Jailer of Hope
Jailer of Justice
Jailer of Temperance
Jailer of Fortitude
Jailer of Faith
Jailer of Love
Absolute Virtue
Tiamat
Jormungand
Vrtra
Bahamut

Basically every FFXIV expansion's endgame content:
12 savage raid turns.
6 ex trials.
2 Ultimate.

When I compare this list, the main distinction I suppose, is that all of FFXIV's endgame content is basically the same. Trial fights inside a square or circular arena.

Say it louder for the people in the back

[Ibkee]

FFXI CoP endgame content:
Dynamis - Valkrum
Dynamis - Buburimu
Dynamis - Qufim
Dynamis - Tavnazia
Several Limbus Areas
Jailer of Prudence
Jailer of Hope
Jailer of Justice
Jailer of Temperance
Jailer of Fortitude
Jailer of Faith
Jailer of Love
Absolute Virtue
Tiamat
Jormungand
Vrtra
Bahamut

Basically every FFXIV expansion's endgame content:
12 savage raid turns.
6 ex trials.
2 Ultimate.

When I compare this list, the main distinction I suppose, is that all of FFXIV's endgame content is basically the same. Trial fights inside a square or circular arena.

So CoP had 12 boss fights, 4 reskinned zones dropping gear already obtainable in game (dreamlands Dynamis) and Limbus, itself a reskin of Promyvion and Ru'Met. Wow.

Seems like you've run out of things to complain about, likely when it came out that you hadn't even done the content available yet.

[Zabuza]

So CoP had 12 boss fights, 4 reskinned zones dropping gear already obtainable in game (dreamlands Dynamis) and Limbus, itself a reskin of Promyvion and Ru'Met. Wow.

Seems like you've run out of things to complain about, likely when it came out that you hadn't even done the content available yet.

That's just the one expansion. FFXI content built upon itself, since it was horizontal progression. Only Ultimate remains relevant here. So the list is actually much larger than what I typed here. And actually, I was in an endgame LS and did all of the content that they offered. I appreciate the hostile tone, though.

Dude, I run (actively) an endgame LS in FFXI. I've been playing for 14 years.

You can throw Sky and AU stuff (assault, Savage, einherjar etc) on the list too. The level cap stayed the same and things like Byakkos Haidate were still top tier 7 years after release. Some people like that, others don't.

You want that experience in FFXIV too, you aren't going to get it. But lo and behold, a game exists if you want the FFXI experience. It's called FFXI.

So much for you being tired.

Just saying, FFXI had a lot more endgame stuff. People keep making excuses as to why FFXIV can't have much endgame content. Do you honestly think I'm posting here to troll or something? I spend most of my time unsubbed and just did so silently for quite a long time. What do you honestly hope to accomplish by acting so smug and hostile towards me? Then people wonder why I started to become hostile when this is the kind of attitude I've dealt with for 80 pages. If you want to have a civil discussion, then try being civil. I'm trying, even though I got pulled away from being civil for a bit.

[Ibkee]

That's just the one expansion. FFXI content built upon itself, since it was horizontal progression. Only Ultimate remains relevant here. So the list is actually much larger than what I typed here. And actually, I was in an endgame LS and did all of the content that they offered. I appreciate the hostile tone, though.

Dude, I run (actively) an endgame LS in FFXI. I've been playing for 14 years.

You can throw Sky and AU stuff (assault, Savage, einherjar etc) on the list too. The level cap stayed the same and things like Byakkos Haidate were still top tier 7 years after release. Some people like that, others don't.

You want that experience in FFXIV too, you aren't going to get it. But lo and behold, a game exists if you want the FFXI experience. It's called FFXI.

So much for you being tired.

[galbsadi]

Either I wasn't precise enough or you misunderstood:

• The current scaling-tech is used to scale everyone down to the level of a certain instance, e.g. Satasha
• I want the opposite: scale every mob/instance difficulty up to set level of e.g. 60/70/80: that way you have fixed vales to scale towards, and a lvl 80 player could play e.g. a lvl 80 Aurum Vale which rewards lvl 80 items + tomestones

That sounds exactly like I understood it, and, as I said, SWTOR does that.

Here's what that leads to:

• Lv15 Satasha stays exactly how it is for lv15 players (as it should)
• At higher levels, you learn new abilities that create combos that increase your potencies of various attacks/spells/what have you
• In order to not make mobs trivial at higher levels, either (a) they receive buffs to higher level players that makes them require more abilities to take down than the lv15 player needed...or (b) the lv15 player is also buffed so that they can take them down with fewer abilities.
• The lv15 player ends up being stronger in Satasha than the lv30/50/60/70/80 player, able to take down the same mobs with a 1-2 combo that the other player might need a couple 1-2-3 combos and a dot kept up and a buff maintained.
• But wait, there's more! The lv15 player isn't expected to necessarily have all their slots filled, either! Maybe not all the jewelry is in yet (ignoring the new starter jewelry), expected stats in a slot are +1 main stat/+1 offstat (yet +5 all main stats exists).
• In order to keep this consistent, maybe at lv50 the mobs scale to ilvl120ish (so as to not be faceroll a la MSQ roulette), and at lv60 they scale to ilvl260ish, etc.
• Yet again, the lv15 player is significantly more powerful than the lv50/60/70/80 player (until geared), and further, upon hitting certain points you have massive strength drops (49 -> 50, 59 -> 60, etc.)

This is also what they did in WoW (and is exactly why lv101 twinks were a thing in Legion and lv110-111 twinks are a thing in BFA). (Granted, that doesn't apply in FFXIV as much b/c we don't have a way to turn off experience).

I maintain that I'm really not a fan of that system. I much prefer what they did in FFXIV, scaling us down (and even then they give higher level players more leniency to where we're still more powerful than the leveling characters). Could they tweak rewards? Sure, and that might help. However, scaling the content up would not, IMO, work so well as you think.

That said, what I think you're actually looking for isn't necessarily for the mobs to be scaled up, but for us to not lose half our buttons when we get a low-level dungeon in leveling roulette, etc. I think that's a valid complaint, but the better solution is to rework our abilities to make combat more interesting at lower levels (a la how they changed the tanks in 5.0, for example).

[WhyAmIHere]

So people like me who enjoy hard group, but not raid content, have to be contend with the usual few lvl 80 dungeons?

And even if I'd develop the taste for Ex trials/Savage raids...

. . .
sounds like you'd only enjoy baldesion arsenal, as XIV doesn't offer what you want besides that.

[Forever_Learning]

Say it louder for the people in the back

Yes, there isn't much end-game content in FF14, which is why I play this MMO.

If the game had an end-game like WoW or FF11, I simply wouldn't play it.

I don't understand how telling people they may find another game more enjoyable, or that they should take a break, is insulting when it comes from the producers themselves.

It's like French Fries at Taco Bell.

First, complain there are no french fries, so they create their own version (ultimate), but then the French Fries aren't like at the other restaurant, so the person continues to complain about the French Fries.

Eventually, Taco Bell goes "listen, we focus on tacos and burritos, if you really want french fries like that, why don't you go there and have them?"

The response is "How dare you tell me to go eat French Fries elsewhere, I want French Fries here, at Taco Bell, and I refuse to go anywhere else"

At some point, you have to ask whether the problem is Taco Bell or the person asking for French Fries at Tacbo Bell.

The end-game set-up in this game is clear, and their hope at appeasing the real hard core is Ultimate.

If the developer were to legitametly answer your question about lack of end-game content, they would probably saw you are getting a larger amount of ultimate this expansion.

If you are upset about end-game and refuse to do ultimate, while also refusing any other content, then why on earth should you stay?

The producers themselves don't think you should, and recommend taking a break in that case.

Thus, please don't get mad at people when they are simply repeating what the lead developer already said on that topic.

You talk about needing to keep subs, but I came to this game because there was so little end-game, and left others, due to their end-game.

Why is it so difficult to just play when you feel like playing and play something else when you are no longer enjoying it?

That doesnt seem insulting to me, it just seems like good advice.

I don't think people are trying to be mean, I think they are just trying to be realistic and this thread is increasingly an intervention.

[linay]

Either I wasn't precise enough or you misunderstood:

• The current scaling-tech is used to scale everyone down to the level of a certain instance, e.g. Satasha
• I want the opposite: scale every mob/instance difficulty up to set level of e.g. 60/70/80: that way you have fixed vales to scale towards, and a lvl 80 player could play e.g. a lvl 80 Aurum Vale which rewards lvl 80 items + tomestones

Would a level 80 player be running the same instance of Aurum Vale as a level 49 player? If so, then you're just advocating for level sync to not remove your abilities, and there's one or more threads dedicated to that discussion. If not, then you're asking to segregate the player base, and that's just not how dungeons work in FFXIV's endgame where they want you to play with lower level players.

[Zabuza]

Yes, there isn't much end-game content in FF14, which is why I play this MMO.

If the game had an end-game like WoW or FF11, I simply wouldn't play it.

I don't understand how telling people they may find another game more enjoyable, or that they should take a break, as insulting when it comes from the producers themselves.

It's like French Fries at Taco Bell.

First, complain there are no french fries, so they create their own version (ultimate), but then the French Fries aren't like at the other restaurant, so the person continues to complain about the French Fries.

Eventually, Taco Bell goes "listen, we focus on tacos and burritos, if you really want french fries like that, why don't you go there and have them?"

The response is "How dare you tell me to go eat French Fries elsewhere, I want French Fries here, at Taco Bell, and I refuse to go anywhere else"

At some point, you have to ask whether the problem is Taco Bell or the person asking for French Fries at Tacbo Bell.

The end-game set-up in this game is clear, and their hope at appeasing the real hard core was Ultimate.

If you are upset about end-game and refuse to do ultimate, while also refusing any other content, then why on earth should you stay?

I came to this game because there was so little end-game, and left others, due to their end-game.

Why is it so difficult to just play when you feel like playing and play something else when you are no longer enjoying it?

That doesnt seem insulting to me, it just seems like good advice.

I don't think people are trying to be mean, I think they are just trying to be realistic and this thread is increasingly an intervention.

I don't get it. Why are you so against end game that you would leave a game that had it even if you had your own stuff to do in that game?

Yes, I guess my most feasible option is to leave... again. Honestly, my main hope upon coming into this thread was to discuss ideas for endgame, but it seems I miscalculated just how vast the amount of people are that just seem to detest all things endgame related. Many here share your viewpoint, that not having much endgame is somehow a good thing. I can try Ultimate, but while I do enjoy difficult content, I'm not looking for my life to be consumed either. I'm casual in the sense that I have a full time job I have to adhere to, on top of other work I do on the side. I can try Ultimate and see how it works out, even though I have already tried it in the past. It's definitely not ideal for me, as I wish there was something in between in difficulty. The me from 18 years ago who didn't have so much work/responsibilities would have been all over Ultimate. It's a bit more difficult now. My main desire was for a different type of content. However, when Savages are burned through in two weeks, it also decreases the longevity of the content that is there and makes the lack of diverse content more apparent. I definitely think they can do better on the fights they do have. The same tome formula, the same square/circular arenas, surely they can do better? There are plenty of raid fights in other MMOs they can look at to draw ideas from.

[Hawklaser]

And we are getting back to the whole just trying to avoid the discussion again.

To those saying that just because someone has not completed savage/ultimate tier content they can't raise a complaint that there might be a lack of end game content, really just need to stop. It doesn't take completing it to see there is a lack of end game content. Your argument is very much akin to telling someone they have not fully explored all of HALOs content because they never completed the game on legendary difficulty. Not everyone finds pushing their level of play for every single game as close to TAS (tool assisted speedrun) level of performance enjoyable. Not everyone finds difficulty levels where only one or two mistakes means failure enjoyable. That is along the lines of what savage/ultimate wants from players.

Its great that so many of you have plenty you occupy the downtime with once have exhausted the current endgame, others however would like a little bit more variety in whats available for endgame battle content instead of them sticking to the same formula each expansion. It's not asking for the perpetual hamster wheel grinds of wow, but there were plenty of other ideas tossed about in this thread for other things that could be done to expand upon the lacking endgame content that some currently perceive. Maybe one day, you might come to a similar conclusion and be met with the same frustrations.