Lack of End Game Content

[Ibkee]

I already get suspicious when someone is labeling criticism as "moaning".

And you don't disappoint:[LIST][*]He is criticizing the clear lack of lvl 80 content, one distinct topic of the whole that if FF14, and in your mind that equates to "You don't enjoy FF14". Please describe your trail of though step by step until you can reach such a conclusion while adhering to logical coherence

Hi, welcome to the thread, 120+ pages late. Not just the thread, the discussion that has been ongoing about this very topic since the beginning.

He is actually criticising, at present, the lack of challenging content, not the lack of content itself. The game's too easy for him, except Ultimate which of course neither of you have done. There's content but ultimately he finds it boring and unrewarding. The formula continues to grate him just as it did in HeavensWard. He's burned out.

[*]How do you know "it's not enough for him and it will never be"? And how can you proclaim that "...others are content" when the forums/in-game chat is filled with criticism? Do you somehow speak for an unnamed majority?

It's not enough and never will be simply because those who complain have been complaining for years.

I can speak for a majority when hard figures show only 5% of the active accounts complete Savage beyond the first few tiers.

I play the game, my wife plays the game, my friends play the game, I have a cousin who does too. I know for a fact others are quite happy as things stand. Small sample sizes yes, but note, subscriber count is only growing.

[*]A sub-game like a MMORPGs depends on longevity, and here you are telling someone who wants to stay stubbed to play challenging content to "come back later when more of the same will be on the menu". Not the smartest advice, hm?

You seem confused. It's Yoshi P, the director and producer of Final Fantasy XIV who suggests those who are bored should unsub between patches. This isn't a flaw, it's by design

Just from that single post of yours you strike me as someone who can't face criticism and instead of falsifying the counter-arguments you resorts to hiding behind unnamed majorities "...others are content" or trying to discredit the bearer of said criticism, here labeling criticism as "moaning".

Go be patronising somewhere else, thanks.

[KageTokage]

While I get a huge rush out of clearing a savage tier for the first time, it also really lowers my drive to play the game, even as someone who spends ample time doing random side content like hunts and fishing.

[Niyuka]

There have been MMOs, and timespans within those MMOs, where the endgame content was enough for 99% of the players in terms of challenge, content and/or casual busywork. WoW BC era before they invented the silly marks for free loot was a time when there was always aspirational content for the vast majority of players ,regardless of their level of hardcore-ness. There were guilds who were focused on the 10-man content (Karazhan and Zul Aman later), there was gear progression throughout the ENTIRE raid content, not invalidated every few weeks by releasing easy-to-acquire BIS stuff for everyone, and there were a lot of side activities.

FFXIVs designer team is so terribly afraid of a single bad player having to MAYBE learn how to play in order to clear content that MIGHT not be auto-complete on first ID, its ridiculous (and entertaining at the same time). I have never seen a dev team so worried about the lowest 2%, and it hurts the game a lot by making all content minus a handful of things utterly laughably easy, and breeds a playerbase that is unwilling, unable, incapable of learning and feels outraged (as can be seen in this thread) by the mere notion of something being beyond their immediate ability to achieve.

[xbahax92]

FFXIVs designer team is so terribly afraid of a single bad player having to MAYBE learn how to play in order to clear content that MIGHT not be auto-complete on first ID, its ridiculous (and entertaining at the same time). I have never seen a dev team so worried about the lowest 2%, and it hurts the game a lot by making all content minus a handful of things utterly laughably easy, and breeds a playerbase that is unwilling, unable, incapable of learning and feels outraged (as can be seen in this thread) by the mere notion of something being beyond their immediate ability to achieve.

Its all about getting subs on and off. They're not even trying to keep their veteran players. Even Yoshida's statement "You should go play other games time to time" is only proving they're not really after long-term subscribers. All they want is to keep even the most casuals attracted to the game, until where they quit and come back at a later time.
How many times did I read "I quit this game at first, but now I gave it a second chance, I love it!!". Its all about "Lets make things easier" so even the dumbest person can deal DPS. Im worried about Ninja, I liked the ninjutsu and mudra combinations... I am aware its clunky with GCD but still...

[RareItems]

Preatorium and The Labyrinth of the Ancients everyday is the real endgame xD.

Savage Eden/Ex Trials are just optional content like Chocobo Racing or Mahjong designed to please a small percent of the total playerbase.

[Zabuza]

It's hard to swallow something like "this endgame is unsustainable" when...it is actually very sustainable. It's sustained for almost 6 years now. In fact the last time endgame was in trouble was when Savage was overturned and world first raiders took longer than a week to kill it.

I stand by my statement that this endgame works. I think it works much better now that Ultimate was conceived. I think the time between Ultimate and Savage is good, it gives even non-week-1 killers ample time to get BiS to tackle it.

Savage could be better. I don't think that means (nor am I saying that's your statement) it's in a bad place. I say this as someone who's killed both Ultimates several times, and killed E4S week 1, before there's any insinuation that I'm a casual stating this.

This endgame works? Dude, the people that stay subbed are the casuals because this game is made for them, with raiders as an afterthought. I guarantee you that there are a ton of raiders just like me, who unsub from this game after they clear the Savage tiers. This game sustains because the casual players sustain it. They could also be receiving additional funds from raiders, but they don't even want to try to make them happy. Casuals don't want us to be happy either. They seem to think it is impossible to have a game that can be fun for casuals and raiders alike. And they get rabid at anyone who dares level a criticism at this game. Always implying that this game has no faults whatsoever, and that any criticism directed at this game must be a fault of the person and not the design. Because clearly there have not been MMOs in the past that had a diverse range of endgame activities compared to this. Ultimate, while a nice challenge, is another trial fight like all the Savages are. Where is the diversity regarding endgame?

[Nariel]

This endgame works? Dude, the people that stay subbed are the casuals because this game is made for them, with raiders as an afterthought. I guarantee you that there are a ton of raiders just like me, who unsub from this game after they clear the Savage tiers. This game sustains because the casual players sustain it. They could also be receiving additional funds from raiders, but they don't even want to try to make them happy. Casuals don't want us to be happy either. They seem to think it is impossible to have a game that can be fun for casuals and raiders alike. And they get rabid at anyone who dares level a criticism at this game.

The clear ratio for savage content say otherwise. Its a problem of limited ressources that need to go where it matter the most. You can't ask for 5 percentil interest to get twice more budget allowed to be taken from content that is actualy working far better.

[Zabuza]

The clear ratio for savage content say otherwise.

I wonder how many endgame raiders they have driven off with the same stale formula of endgame over the last 6 years? Perhaps that also factors into this ratio? Probably also the general attitude of this community towards them as well. It's pretty clear you want to keep me and other raiders in a corner and want us to just be quiet and suffer or unsub while you get to enjoy your casual paradise. The general adversarial tone of this community towards raiders who dare to ask for more raiding content is pretty apparent.

[Nariel]

I wonder how many endgame raiders they have driven off with the same stale formula of endgame over the last 6 years? Perhaps that also factors into this ratio? Probably also the general attitude of this community towards them as well. It's pretty clear you want to keep me and other raiders in a corner and want us to just be quiet and suffer or unsub while you get to enjoy your casual paradise.

Maybe you are right, maybe its a casual paradise or whatever. But it work, number show that it work so why the hell do you want them to repair a formula that isn't broken. Maybe thats what he game in meant to be so maybe you should start considering to deal with it.

[Zabuza]

Maybe you are right, maybe its a casual paradise or whatever. But it work, number show that it work so why the hell do you want them to repair a formula that isn't broken. Maybe thats what he game in meant to be so maybe you should start considering to deal with it.

It works for you. Not for me. There is literally no MMORPG that works for me at the moment. Great for you, you don't feel the need to complain or try to make this game better because you were lucky enough to have a game that you enjoy. You don't need to complain, obviously. Maybe I should learn to deal with it? Wtf do you think I have been doing for the last 4 years? How much of this time do you think I've spent unsubbed? How long do you think I've waited for the MMORPG that scratches my itch? The one I've not had since FFXI, that was destroyed by the casual community and their entry into this space. Now you want to silence me after your community had destroyed the entire genre that I enjoyed.