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  1. #1061
    Player
    Hix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    76
    Character
    Flik Alvein
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 80
    They put out new patches every 3 months. They're not going to change things. They openly accept that hardcores will clear out everything right away and unsub.
    (8)

  2. #1062
    Player
    Kaylessa's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    151
    Character
    Kaylessa Sylverlur
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 63
    Quote Originally Posted by AuraAstra View Post
    As someone who plays both FFXIV and WoW, I think the term "endgame" is deceptively subjective.

    I have different views on where the endgame lies in both games. For WoW, I see raiding as the endgame. It's literally "the thing you do at the end of the game". It wraps up whatever storyline is going on (sort of), and gives a challenge for max-leveled, high ilevel players. World quests and things like Island Expeditions and M+ are what I refer to as my "WoW chores". They're things I feel compelled to do, not because I enjoy them, but because if I don't do them, then I'll fall behind my raid team.

    In FFXIV, however, I don't really see the game as having an "end", therefore I have trouble defining an "endgame" for it. The reason for this is simple: hitting max level/max gear isn't the end. Because I can subsequently go back and level every other job on the same character, that means I can leave low level sidequests alone, and they'll still have value after my main job is at the max. Similarly, there is the fact that I can go back and level other jobs on the same character. I don't have to start over and do the same quests I did to level my first job if I want to give a different role a try. I can have an entirely different adventure or (if I'm feeling lazy) I can just do my daily roulettes for a couple of months (total of maybe 6 hours a day if you include time spent just sitting around in queues for dps jobs) and have a new job geared up and ready to roll by the time I finish leveling it. No waiting around on RNG for gear to drop. And I never feel like the game is "ended".
    Considering WoW is a game that "begins at the endgame", hitting the endgame or max level in WoW also "isn't the end", rather just the beginning. You're applying two different standards to the two games.

    You nor I are the guardians of the English language, the community is the guardians of the language, and the community has defined endgame in MMOs to be "max level content". Can we stop trying to redefine the term to suit our prejudices and biases?
    (3)

  3. #1063
    Player
    AuraAstra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    39
    Character
    Aura Astra
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaylessa View Post
    Considering WoW is a game that "begins at the endgame", hitting the endgame or max level in WoW also "isn't the end", rather just the beginning. You're applying two different standards to the two games.

    You nor I are the guardians of the English language, the community is the guardians of the language, and the community has defined endgame in MMOs to be "max level content". Can we stop trying to redefine the term to suit our prejudices and biases?
    Okay, let's not redefine anything then. We're saying that "endgame" means "max level content", yes?

    In WoW, there is only one max level per character. Once you're done with that, there's not much else to do that's really rewarding if you're only looking to do level-appropriate content (the so-called "endgame"). In FFXIV there are 17 combat max levels (18 if you count BLU) and 11 profession max levels on a single character. Now granted you don't have to reach max level in order to unlock the ability to level these other jobs, but the fact is that most people likely not leveling all 29 jobs concurrently, they'll finish the story with one job (reach "endgame"), and then go back and level subsequent jobs - therefore classifying leveling of alternate jobs as "endgame" content because it's something done after reach max level.

    I know that people are fond of the adage that "in WoW, the game begins at the endgame", but frankly, that is elitist sophistry. No game "begins" at the endgame. That's why it's called the endgame. It literally defines itself as "things done when you reach the end of end of the game". When you get to the endgame, the game is over and everything left is just... extra.
    (9)

  4. #1064
    Player

    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    1,706
    Quote Originally Posted by Avraym View Post
    There's plenty of overall content in this game, just not a lot of raiding/end game battle content.
    And the developer seems content with that status quo.

    Given that, either you somehow find interest in doing those other contents, or you find something to do outside the game, even unsubscribing if you want, and the developer seems ok with that. So I wouldn't get your hopes up at that changing any time soon.

    That said, ARR and difficulty aside, Stormblood has 1 more extreme trial than Heavensward and adds 2 Ultimate fights, and it's likely Shadowbringers will have 3 Ultimate fights.
    (10)

  5. #1065
    Player
    geekgirl101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    469
    Character
    M'leineya Leoh
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 100
    Really? You're gonna complain about lack of content when the expansion is barely 2 months old? Get real speedy.
    (1)
    Gaius van Baelsar: Nor is this unknown to your masters. Which prompts the question: what came first, the chicken or the egg?

  6. #1066
    Player
    Elladie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Limsa
    Posts
    488
    Character
    Elai Khatahdyn
    World
    Omega
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 90
    If all content aside from levelling your main to max level, gearing it in the best gear in every slot, and taking part in Extremes, Savage raids and any Ultimates for the current expansion, isn't End-game content - clearly you haven't reached End-game until you've cleared all that other content. It's still to be done, therefore you're not at the end of the game.

    In contrast, if you can reach End-game by levelling your main to max level and gearing it fully, anything you do after that point is End-game content, even if it's chocobo racing.

    What you are really saying, OP, is that there is nothing you personally enjoy doing once you have reached max level, geared, and completed Savage. Which is a very different thing from lack of endgame content
    (5)

  7. #1067
    Player
    MonteCristo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    446
    Character
    Lamonte Cristo
    World
    Seraph
    Main Class
    Reaper Lv 100
    Fix eureka then we can end this debate lol
    (0)
    Death Is Only The Beginning....

  8. #1068
    Player

    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    1,706
    Quote Originally Posted by MonteCristo View Post
    Fix eureka then we can end this debate lol
    Please look forward to the next exploratory content. We'll see how that goes. (I quit Eureka shortly after reaching Pyros, so sometimes I regret not being able to attempt a BA run...sometimes.)
    (1)

  9. #1069
    Player
    LadyKairi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    553
    Character
    Kaja White
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by geekgirl101 View Post
    Really? You're gonna complain about lack of content when the expansion is barely 2 months old? Get real speedy.
    Has nothing to do with just the expansion itself. This has been a reoccurring issue for years, well before Shadowbringers. The concern is just being voiced now, since it still persists.


    Quote Originally Posted by Elladie View Post
    If all content aside from levelling your main to max level, gearing it in the best gear in every slot, and taking part in Extremes, Savage raids and any Ultimates for the current expansion, isn't End-game content - clearly you haven't reached End-game until you've cleared all that other content. It's still to be done, therefore you're not at the end of the game.

    In contrast, if you can reach End-game by levelling your main to max level and gearing it fully, anything you do after that point is End-game content, even if it's chocobo racing.

    What you are really saying, OP, is that there is nothing you personally enjoy doing once you have reached max level, geared, and completed Savage. Which is a very different thing from lack of endgame content
    Endgame content is stuff you do at max level with your max level character in max level content. Leveling does not count. Even if you have a job at max level, leveling a different job is still filler content. You are still doing dated content below current max level. Chocobo racing, gold saucer in general, they’re filler content. Not endgame, as you do not even need to be max level to even enjoy it. People want more real endgame content. Content that actually makes use of their max level character, otherwise what is even the point of having a max level character with all this nice gear and flashy new skills if you have hardly any content that utilizes it? And wanting endgame content =/= not enjoying or liking some filler content.
    (7)

  10. #1070
    Player
    Eli85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    367
    Character
    Eldred Draconis
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by LadyKairi View Post
    Endgame content is stuff you do at max level with your max level character in max level content. Leveling does not count. Even if you have a job at max level, leveling a different job is still filler content. You are still doing dated content below current max level. Chocobo racing, gold saucer in general, they’re filler content. Not endgame, as you do not even need to be max level to even enjoy it. People want more real endgame content. Content that actually makes use of their max level character, otherwise what is even the point of having a max level character with all this nice gear and flashy new skills if you have hardly any content that utilizes it? And wanting endgame content =/= not enjoying or liking some filler content.

    Quoting for emphasis, especially the bolded part. Leveling is not end game content, no matter what mental gymnastics some in this thread do to justify it.
    (5)

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