Lack of End Game Content

[Hawklaser]

To all the ones like Nims and Zabuza, wanting more challenging end game content, the more and more I think about all the pieces of the puzzle, the more I am starting to come to an odd conclusion. For some it's not so much the content or the rewards of the content, it's the spirit of competition.

Maybe I'm wrong, but the lack of content crowd seems to be the ones that also strive for world/server first clears so devour content faster than everyone else. Its not the loot or content that drives them, but their competitive nature.

And thats where the content is truly lacking. So if raids or pvp were totally off the table, what other kinds of competitive things might be fun for you? Weekly/Monthly leaderboards for fastest min iLvl clears for certain trials/dungeons, lowest iLvl clears done for the same, random boss rush roulettes?

[Nariel]

To all the ones like Nims and Zabuza, wanting more challenging end game content, the more and more I think about all the pieces of the puzzle, the more I am starting to come to an odd conclusion. For some it's not so much the content or the rewards of the content, it's the spirit of competition.

Maybe I'm wrong, but the lack of content crowd seems to be the ones that also strive for world/server first clears so devour content faster than everyone else. Its not the loot or content that drives them, but their competitive nature.

And thats where the content is truly lacking. So if raids or pvp were totally off the table, what other kinds of competitive things might be fun for you? Weekly/Monthly leaderboards for fastest min iLvl clears for certain trials/dungeons, lowest iLvl clears done for the same, random boss rush roulettes?

I actualy kinda like the idea of a boss survival rush... Like very much.

[Zabuza]

To all the ones like Nims and Zabuza, wanting more challenging end game content, the more and more I think about all the pieces of the puzzle, the more I am starting to come to an odd conclusion. For some it's not so much the content or the rewards of the content, it's the spirit of competition.

Maybe I'm wrong, but the lack of content crowd seems to be the ones that also strive for world/server first clears so devour content faster than everyone else. Its not the loot or content that drives them, but their competitive nature.

And thats where the content is truly lacking. So if raids or pvp were totally off the table, what other kinds of competitive things might be fun for you? Weekly/Monthly leaderboards for fastest min iLvl clears for certain trials/dungeons, lowest iLvl clears done for the same, random boss rush roulettes?

I would go for world/server first clears if I had the time, or the main job(Samurai is shunned for such things). My Zalera server first was before I got a full time job. Now, I just want refreshing content that can last for more than 2 months. I want them to think outside the box for fights(in this case quite literally.) I would love for fights to be implemented where you cleverly utilize the environment to kill adds on certain phases, or parts of the fight where the environment itself interacts with our character in unique ways(there are plenty of examples of this if you look at other MMOs.) I love PvP, but this game engine isn't built for that with the way the combat works so I don't talk about it.

I would love if the Savage raids were even more expansive than coil was, with plenty of hidden mysteries to explore. Of course, I realize people don't wish to waste their time and want to go straight to the goal, so there would have to be proper reward incentives. For this, I think of something like chests that can contain an item that pops an NM, either inside or outside the raid, which in turn would drop high gil items to sell(Think KSNMs/BCNMs from FFXI). High-end crafting items having a small chance to drop off the trash in between is also something that can provide incentive. They can also implement a survival mode type endgame, where waves of enemies(tons of trash and bosses scattered here and there) rush at you(similar to one of your suggestions). Rewards could correspond to how long you survive and how many bosses you kill. What is sorely lacking right now in endgame is any form of exploration or adventure. It's just boss fights and that's it. It's extremely linear, as is the gear, which is also a limiting factor on endgame right now. If you made additional modes, the amount of BiS gear wouldn't increase, because there is no such thing as situational gear in this game, just flat stats. I would love to implement more exploration into our endgame, for it to feel like an epic adventure. But again, knowing how people are, there has to be some kind of reward for that.

[Nims]

it's the spirit of competition.

Not for me, I don't care about world firsts clears, never have and never will. I want challenging and lasting content. I want there to be a reason that I'm going out of my way to get this gear. Be it fun(raids here aren't fun any more, Coil was fun) or because I need it for world bosses or something else. That's the reason I don't play BDO as long as I'd like. I love the grinding, the open world, the pvp, and the fact quests aren't forced down my throat but there's no real reason for the grind. I grind for like what? Node Wars 2 times a week?

Here getting gear for raids is an acceptable answer but the stuff is so easy you can clear it all in overmeld crafted gear.

[MonteCristo]

Not for me, I don't care about world firsts clears, never have and never will. I want challenging and lasting content. I want there to be a reason that I'm going out of my way to get this gear. Be it fun(raids here aren't fun any more, Coil was fun) or because I need it for world bosses or something else. That's the reason I don't play BDO as long as I'd like. I love the grinding, the open world, the pvp, and the fact quests aren't forced down my throat but there's no real reason for the grind. I grind for like what? Node Wars 2 times a week?

Here getting gear for raids is an acceptable answer but the stuff is so easy you can clear it all in overmeld crafted gear.

This is more or less what i am saying too. Dont really care of EX trials or fighting for a world first. Would just love some Content that is lasting and can be done with replayability. Loved the way relic played out but it was a huge disappointment to put that much effort into a weapon that not only isnt BIS but does not stand the test of time. We have had like a million different relics. Would love one true ultimate weapon with something unique about it ex. Special hidden trait or weaponskill/ability. But i digress....To be honest i really thought eureka was going to be our savior and it was the exact type of content i was looking forward too....on paper it sounded GREAT....then it failed

[LadyKairi]

To all the ones like Nims and Zabuza, wanting more challenging end game content, the more and more I think about all the pieces of the puzzle, the more I am starting to come to an odd conclusion. For some it's not so much the content or the rewards of the content, it's the spirit of competition.

Maybe I'm wrong, but the lack of content crowd seems to be the ones that also strive for world/server first clears so devour content faster than everyone else. Its not the loot or content that drives them, but their competitive nature.

And thats where the content is truly lacking. So if raids or pvp were totally off the table, what other kinds of competitive things might be fun for you? Weekly/Monthly leaderboards for fastest min iLvl clears for certain trials/dungeons, lowest iLvl clears done for the same, random boss rush roulettes?

I wish for more challenging content, yet I have zero interest in being world first or top of the leader board. I just like the challenge and bettering myself in challenging content. I like to compare myself to my superiors, but it’s more about learning and self improvement than being competitive.

I only really log in to raid on my scheduled raid days. We take our time, yet we still end up with a long period where we have nothing to really do after we get our gear and mounts. This content brings my static together. We have a lot of fun together, and progging with them is a blast. I also tend to stream our raid night, so even my FC fam tune in to experience the content when they either can’t prog or don’t feel they’re good enough to participate. It brings my loved ones together and it gives me a lot of entertainment (optimizing and finally clearing feels so rewarding).

I’m not sure what I would add. I’ve thought even just one more boss would be fine. I’ve also heard of challenging 4 man dungeons, which I’m all for. I’m game for anything at this point. I just find the current dungeons braindead. I don’t even have to think about what I’m doing, to the point it just makes me really sleepy. Extremes aren’t that much better. I do have to say, though, I love the fact they add one primal every expansion that’s supposed to be more difficult than the others (thordan and shinryu), though I think one is pretty low. I find those the most rewarding.

[Klb600]

To all the ones like Nims and Zabuza, wanting more challenging end game content, the more and more I think about all the pieces of the puzzle, the more I am starting to come to an odd conclusion. For some it's not so much the content or the rewards of the content, it's the spirit of competition.

Maybe I'm wrong, but the lack of content crowd seems to be the ones that also strive for world/server first clears so devour content faster than everyone else. Its not the loot or content that drives them, but their competitive nature.

And thats where the content is truly lacking. So if raids or pvp were totally off the table, what other kinds of competitive things might be fun for you? Weekly/Monthly leaderboards for fastest min iLvl clears for certain trials/dungeons, lowest iLvl clears done for the same, random boss rush roulettes?

Honestly its not the competition/challenge in of itself, but the thrill of it. Why do you think many people enjoy difficult games like Dark Souls or Monster Hunter? that thrill keeps our focus and attention and is whats really makes the experience impact and enjoyable, In the challenging content it really requires us to take all the knowledge we have gained from the game + our maximum available kit + perfect coordination with our group and that's what makes it fun. Speaking for myself personally I just find it difficult to enjoy games like Dynasty Warriors, where I just thoughtlessly smash buttons and everything before me dies. It just isn't fun or engaging, but I understand some people enjoy that, and that is fine.

Honestly for me I would like too see more engaging Open world endgame content. The open world in this game just feels too much like a prop, with no real depth or mystery to it. Whenever someone criticizes the story restrictions in this game, the main defense is "Its a FFXIV game" which even though I am not a fan of the strict story gating in this game, that reason is why I don't find the story gating a negative, But the thing is, you know what else FF is known for? deep interesting and fleshed out worlds to explore with secrets to discover. Say what you will about FFXI but it did an amazing job at this. I feel this game is just completely lacking in that regards.

Hopefully with the next Eureka/Diadam type content they can get it right. I like that they are trying but it seems with those content, they took some of the worst parts of the Open World and just relegated it too its own instance.

[MonteCristo]

Honestly its not the competition/challenge in of itself, but the thrill of it. Why do you think many people enjoy difficult games like Dark Souls or Monster Hunter? that thrill keeps our focus and attention and is whats really makes the experience impact and enjoyable, In the challenging content it really requires us to take all the knowledge we have gained from the game + our maximum available kit + perfect coordination with our group and that's what makes it fun. Speaking for myself personally I just find it difficult to enjoy games like Dynasty Warriors, where I just thoughtlessly smash buttons and everything before me dies. It just isn't fun or engaging, but I understand some people enjoy that, and that is fine.

Honestly for me I would like too see more engaging Open world endgame content. The open world in this game just feels too much like a prop, with no real depth or mystery to it. Whenever someone criticizes the story restrictions in this game, the main defense is "Its a FFXIV game" which even though I am not a fan of the strict story gating in this game, that reason is why I don't find the story gating a negative, But the thing is, you know what else FF is known for? deep interesting and fleshed out worlds to explore with secrets to discover. Say what you will about FFXI but it did an amazing job at this. I feel this game is just completely lacking in that regards.

Hopefully with the next Eureka/Diadam type content they can get it right. I like that they are trying but it seems with those content, they took some of the worst parts of the Open World and just relegated it too its own instance.

This about sums up my sentiments as well. Fixing euerka/diadem add a meaningful relic and im happy to be honest.

[Hawklaser]

Honestly its not the competition/challenge in of itself, but the thrill of it. Why do you think many people enjoy difficult games like Dark Souls or Monster Hunter? that thrill keeps our focus and attention and is whats really makes the experience impact and enjoyable, In the challenging content it really requires us to take all the knowledge we have gained from the game + our maximum available kit + perfect coordination with our group and that's what makes it fun. Speaking for myself personally I just find it difficult to enjoy games like Dynasty Warriors, where I just thoughtlessly smash buttons and everything before me dies. It just isn't fun or engaging, but I understand some people enjoy that, and that is fine.

Honestly for me I would like too see more engaging Open world endgame content. The open world in this game just feels too much like a prop, with no real depth or mystery to it. Whenever someone criticizes the story restrictions in this game, the main defense is "Its a FFXIV game" which even though I am not a fan of the strict story gating in this game, that reason is why I don't find the story gating a negative, But the thing is, you know what else FF is known for? deep interesting and fleshed out worlds to explore with secrets to discover. Say what you will about FFXI but it did an amazing job at this. I feel this game is just completely lacking in that regards.

Hopefully with the next Eureka/Diadam type content they can get it right. I like that they are trying but it seems with those content, they took some of the worst parts of the Open World and just relegated it too its own instance.

Kinda interesting that you picked Dark Souls and Monster Hunter... Really liked the Souls series myself, Hard as nails, easy to pick up, and fair. Monster Hunter never really could get into thanks to the mega information dump had to get over at the start. Also the dynasty warrior games while fun for a bit, do get boring quickly.

So content wise, maybe more stuff on the scale of the Odin fate(at ARR iLvls), but also tied in with potentially a couple other fate chains/hunts or the like, but also hidden away and tricky to trigger. I'd probably go with some kind of unique style of re-spawn timer for it as do want it easily available for those that figure it out, but maybe not quickly farm able.

The really interesting thing is, I can see most players enjoying all of this style of content... yet more effort was spent trying to say develop more content for Side A or Side B instead of trying to figure out what kind of elements might be best used to develop content both sides could enjoy at a variety of skill levels.

[Catwho]

It might be interesting for content that would need farmed pops, if there was a random chance that a gatherer could be the one to acquire it, not just via battle. Imagine building a kirin pop set like in XI, but one starter pop would have to be crafted, one pop would have to be fished, and two other starter pops from normal battle content. Not unlike how the S rank in North Shroud is technically spawned by someone fishing up a specific fish.