Lack of End Game Content

[Tint]

Okay, lets compare the endgame battle content of Stormblood...

Harcore players got 12 savage raidturns, 2 ultimate raids and 7 extreme primals in SB. All with unique rewards. On top of that we have the difficult floors of deep dungeon and Baldesions Arsenal.

Casuals got 10 Expert Dungeons, 12 normal raidturns, 3 24-man-raids and 4 Eureka maps with unique rewards (lots of them actually).

And yeah, some primals with 0 replay ability...

Casuals actually lost 2 Dungeons and basically the whole deep dungeon compared to HW, so hardcore players can have ultimate raids and reach the harder floors in deep dungeon faster.

Shall we look into PvP content too? Well, better not I guess...

Actually I am not even mad about the loss of 2 dungeons, they are boring and serve no real purpose anymore without the old style relic tomestone grind... Wich also means they are questionable in their position as "endgame content". But well, expert roulette once a day does count I think.


My conclusion: Please increase the replay ability of casual content! Why do hardcore players get all the shinys? There is nothing to do besides expert roulette once a day and getting the weapon token from the 8 man / the upgrade token from the 24 man raid. The only real endgame content is the relic grind and that's simply not enough to keep us casuals busy!

[CorbinDallas]

Okay, lets compare the endgame battle content of Stormblood...

Harcore players got 12 savage raidturns, 2 ultimate raids and 7 extreme primals in SB. All with unique rewards. On top of that we have the difficult floors of deep dungeon and Baldesions Arsenal.

Casuals got 10 Expert Dungeons, 12 normal raidturns, 3 24-man-raids and 4 Eureka maps with unique rewards (lots of them actually).

And yeah, some primals with 0 replay ability...

Casuals actually lost 2 Dungeons and basically the whole deep dungeon compared to HW, so hardcore players can have ultimate raids and reach the harder floors in deep dungeon faster.

Shall we look into PvP content too? Well, better not I guess...

Actually I am not even mad about the loss of 2 dungeons, they are boring and serve no real purpose anymore without the old style relic tomestone grind... Wich also means they are questionable in their position as "endgame content". But well, expert roulette once a day does count I think.


My conclusion: Please increase the replay ability of casual content! Why do hardcore players get all the shinys? There is nothing to do besides expert roulette once a day and getting the weapon token from the 8 man / the upgrade token from the 24 man raid. The only real endgame content is the relic grind and that's simply not enough to keep us casuals busy!

If you have half a brain then you can easily do all of the extremes and at minimum the first 2 Savage floors of each tier. They're roughly of the same difficulty, just grow a pair and dive in.

[Nims]

You're demeaning them for wanting almost literally the same thing- more content that appeals to themselves.

False, I'm demeaning them because if they think that just because they don't want something means no one should get it, that's disgusting. Again, in mmos resources and or time will always be taken from one thing to implement something new and will cycle through like this (depending on the size of the team).

Savages and Extremes are basically all the hardcore group has and it takes next to no time to down to them. People have asked for a higher difficulty, only for selfish people to shoot it down because they don't have time or the skill to do it.

[Mitracia]

I mean it's been a problem ever since Heavensward, and now it surfaces?

[ElciaDeiLinus]

False, I'm demeaning them because if they think that just because they don't want something means no one should get it, that's disgusting. Again, in mmos resources and or time will always be taken from one thing to implement something new and will cycle through like this (depending on the size of the team).

Savages and Extremes are basically all the hardcore group has and it takes next to no time to down to them. People have asked for a higher difficulty, only for selfish people to shoot it down because they don't have time or the skill to do it.

Really? I must have missed the post where people were saying to remove savages/extremes. Look, if it's selfish for casuals to want to not lose content in order to appease a group that I think this thread has proven beyond a doubt hates them- then it's doubly so for hardcores to want more and more development time at the expense of everyone else.

You call people disgusting and selfish, hivemind- mock their skill, look down on their play time even though what most people consider 'casual' play in an mmo would be considered fairly hardcore dedication with any other hobby.

Savages and extremes aren't all HC players have, anymore than Gold Saucer is all mini game players have- it's perhaps all they choose to take part in, but if we were to look at the amount of time people spend in extremes/savages to gold saucer, or crafting, or whatever else to the amount of time spent developing new content each patch- I would imagine far less player time is spent on the former, while far more dev time is spent on the former.

Doesn't that make you the selfish one for wanting more content than is already given- when there's several other larger niches in the game that get less? Why have raiders always felt they deserve to have far more of the dev's time than any other part of the game, even parts with far more players doing it?

But even so, despite the insults and to use your term 'disgusting' way raiders look down on casuals- I don't think there's anything wrong with you wanting more content at the expense of other players, there's nothing wrong with asking for it and for defending it. But if you want to convince the majority to not view you as elites that consider all non-elites to be garbage-

"If you have half a brain then you can easily do all of the extremes and at minimum the first 2 Savage floors of each tier. They're roughly of the same difficulty, just grow a pair and dive in."

-Maybe stop talking about them in ways like this.

[Noodle_Trinidad]

I mean it's been a problem ever since Heavensward, and now it surfaces?

Heavensward will always have the benefit of being the first Expansion that had a increase of quality at the cost of quantity, which isn't bad per say, but repeating the cycle 3 times wears thin on players especially when SE claims player growth with each expansion. At one point you must come to question where the increase of revenue is going given the game has essentially been rehashing Heavensward for 3 expansions now.

One of the valid criticisms that WoW gets its is need to reinvent the wheel with each Expansion and in turn fuels the notion of how XIV is great because it doesn't do that but I'd argue that XIV suffers the exact opposite in which they let things stagnant and conform to something safe rather than build upon things. We're essentially hitting a variation of what led to 1.0, overconfidence and the notion that their static design is the best. The benefit XIV has at the time being is Ishikawa and Soken providing great atmosphere with their story and music but at some point that will give out.

As for the lack of endgame content honestly this is an issue with having a foundation based on modern WoW and keeping to a strict iLvl treadmill in which stats offer no real depth to ones playstyle. You would have to lift that system from the ground up to justify a myriad of content that requires a multitude of armor choices and fluid rotations. At this point what real character progression can be offered that will shake up the "Do I wear the Tomestone or Savage Gear in regards to <x>'s stat weights?"

[Nims]

Snip

how can you expect them to be fine with having resources pulled from what they like to support things they don't?

This is what I'm talking about. There's a ton of things in this game that I don't like but other people do, I still support it because at the end of the day not everything is about me and people with my playstyle. Which is something "casuals" need to understand as well, not everything is about you.

I'm also not calling people disgusting based off playstyle or play skill, not sure why you're trying to push that narrative. I'm calling people disgusting that thinks it's ok to block something simply because it's not something they would play/do. That goes for literally anyone in any play group.

Maybe stop talking about them in ways like this.

For starters, I didn't say that, secondly why do you want people to be nice here when you're pretty much saying it's ok that raiders don't get anything.

Why have raiders always felt they deserve to have far more of the dev's time than any other part of the game, even parts with far more players doing it?

Not sure where you're getting this from. Things were fine with Coil as it was an actual raid, casuals said they wanted to see the story but didn't want to actually do the raid. Hence story mode raids, then casuals still complained and now we have the arena boss fights that we have now.

Raiders have asked for harder fights, casual community tells them no.
So now they're asking for more fights or more tiers but I guess the casual community is going to say no to that too?

Raider are about to get a fresh set of content in a week, the game does do regular updates for the higher end players, you can't push the idea that raiders don't get anything. They might not get as much as you like but the idea you don't get anything just isn't true.

Anything =/= enough which is what people are asking for. Either more fights or harder fights where it lasts a bit longer.

Edit: I miss read what you're talking about, I get that raiders do get things, however how that other poster is coming off is as if raiders shouldn't get anything at all or even less than what's offered now.

[jameseoakes]

For starters, I didn't say that, secondly why do you want people to be nice here when you're pretty much saying it's ok that raiders don't get anything.

High end raiders are about to get a fresh set of content in a week, the game does do regular updates for the higher end players, you can't push the idea that raiders don't get anything. They might not get as much as you like but the idea you don't get anything just isn't true.

[Enjuden]

Okay, lets compare the endgame battle content of Stormblood...

Harcore players got 12 savage raidturns, 2 ultimate raids and 7 extreme primals in SB. All with unique rewards. On top of that we have the difficult floors of deep dungeon and Baldesions Arsenal.

Casuals got 10 Expert Dungeons, 12 normal raidturns, 3 24-man-raids and 4 Eureka maps with unique rewards (lots of them actually).

And yeah, some primals with 0 replay ability...

Casuals actually lost 2 Dungeons and basically the whole deep dungeon compared to HW, so hardcore players can have ultimate raids and reach the harder floors in deep dungeon faster.

Shall we look into PvP content too? Well, better not I guess...

Actually I am not even mad about the loss of 2 dungeons, they are boring and serve no real purpose anymore without the old style relic tomestone grind... Wich also means they are questionable in their position as "endgame content". But well, expert roulette once a day does count I think.


My conclusion: Please increase the replay ability of casual content! Why do hardcore players get all the shinys? There is nothing to do besides expert roulette once a day and getting the weapon token from the 8 man / the upgrade token from the 24 man raid. The only real endgame content is the relic grind and that's simply not enough to keep us casuals busy!

Hardcore players get all the shinies because casual players have to be coddled. I'm sorry, but that is the truth. There is no desire for casual players to learn anything about their class, and are constantly behind by at LEAST two major patches, even going back to old expansion content. Until that changes, or SE decides to say 'too bad' when it comes to players who refuse to learn complaining that content is too hard, I doubt anything will change, for both casual and hardcore. You have to force casual players to learn if you want to break this cycle, which is a monumental task that I know people still try to do. On top of this, saying that hardcore get all the shinies is not only objectively wrong, but absurd.

On top of this, hardcore players have 14 fights. That's it. Casuals are able to do EX primals, if they are willing to learn and still be casual. You want replayability? You want more content? Learn to play.

[Zabuza]

Raider are about to get a fresh set of content in a week, the game does do regular updates for the higher end players, you can't push the idea that raiders don't get anything. They might not get as much as you like but the idea you don't get anything just isn't true.

Ahh, the fresh content that consists of two primals I've fought multiple times before.

The fresh content that will be finished within 2 months, at which point 4 months will just be me unsubbing. For world first contenders, I bet the shelf life is a couple weeks at best. Meanwhile casuals have basically neverending content to do. Endless jobs/crafts to level. Countless achievements and a great number of glamour options.